True, but "we" aren't mostly average humans (in terms of income or wealth). Anyone on this site that has even $200000 US (after liquidating all assets) could put it in a few Cayman banks-this would throw off at least $10000 a year in income-which would be more than enough to live in a lot of these poorer countries. Supposedly $48000 US per year puts one at the top 1% level in terms of annual income-my point is that we are living on an extremely poor planet and most of us are closer to the top of the pyramid than the bottom.

Astroboy, I am not a revolutionary. I am proposing no revolutionary action whatsoever, Marxist or Gandhian. If I thought there were some revolutionary action that would fix things then I would be the world's strongest revolutionary. But the world is deep into overshoot, and no revolutionary action whatsoever will fix that. Sadly, nature will just have to take its course.

+1 greenie for your sentiment.

At the beginning of the Great Depression (so-called), the U.S. was at the pinnacle of its potential, and that power would be realized over the next three decades.

Now it looks more like the 4th century than 20th century

By the end of the 4th century AD the Roman Empire was staggering under crushing taxes, fraudulent judges, dishonest officials, abandoned cities and the foederati from which we get the English words federation and federalism.

The foederati was the Roman idea of subsidizing those barbarian tribes Rome needed to defend the empire. In short it was a nice way of saying that the Romans were no longer willing to fight in their own armies so they were looking for others to work at the jobs the Romans wouldn’t take. We call it the hiring of mercenaries.

This policy had put a huge number of people on the Roman payroll notably the Attacotti, Franks, Vandals, Alans and the Visigoths (western Goths).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/case/case16.html

It is hard for old guys to be anything other than sad at the opportunities squandered. It is harder yet to generate enough energy to get out and protest this nonsense any more -- the criminals have beaten us down for good.

View,

I'd certainly include all of those and add a lot more. Some may seem out of place if things collapse but I believe will be useful non-the-less:

Engine mechanics (If push comes to shove I'll convert some of our stuff to wood gas)
Carpentry
Masonry
Plumbing
Electrical (AC/DC)
Hunting/gathering including fishing and trapping
Butchering
Welding/blacksmithing
Roofing
Tanning/sewing/weaving
Timber felling
Alternative medicine/EMT training

That's enough for now and far more than anyone can be fully proficient in. My point is that many of these skills (and the ones you listed) are "normal" for country people like myself. The only option in many cases is to muddle through. While a person may not have journeyman skill levels, they will not usually make serious mistakes.

And, of course, many of these have sub-specialties such as food preservation - hot water bath canning, pressure canning, dehydration, smoking, potting, juicing, etc.

Todd

In the immortal words of Molly Ivins:

"Texas liberals are different from other liberals...Texas liberals know it can get worse"

Except, that line of thinking lets far too many people in positions of power and responsibility get off the hook far too easy. The truth of the matter is that very different decisions could have been made by various key people at various points in the past, and those decisions could have resulted in a scenario that would look far less dire and stark than the one we are facing. Voltaire's whole point was that the world truly made life far more miserable for more people than things had to be, due to many people behaving badly when they could have behaved better. Realism might require recognizing that people do act that way, and thus thus the world is that way, but it need not require believing that people had no choice, and thus no responsibility, for their actions.