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319 comments on DrumBeat: August 26, 2008
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319 comments on DrumBeat: August 26, 2008
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GAIA Host Collective
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/events/1900hurr.htm
Gustav looks like the real deal. A couple of model runs suggest the potential for Cat 4/5 status near Cuba. The waters between Jamaica and Cuba have the highest heat potential in the basin. Less heat potential in the Gulf but waters still capable of sustaining a major (Cat 3+) storm provided inhibiting factors like shear are minimal. My initial thoughts suggested a south-central or southwest LA hit due to a ridge weakness in the wake of Fay but a more southerly track means Gustav could meander further west. Now Port Aurther and Houston will also need to keep close tabs on this system.
Stealing thunder from someone else...
Best hopes for a Kenedy County, TX landfall (as low density as it gets) or a diminished storm elsewhere.
Yes, like Hurricane Allen. Cat 5 that tore up a lot of scrubland.
Alan
Cruel of the GDFL to put it on the gulf coast's doorstep on August 31 http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/gfdltc2.cgi?time=2008082606-gustav07l&fie.... Look at the size of that cat 4 wind field. In the infinitesimally small case that this verifies they would need to start evac on Friday night.
looks like Camille to me.
Meanwhile,
Your Corps at work:
Trees on river levee at risk of removal
by Sheila Grissett, The Times-Picayune
Friday July 25, 2008, 8:51 PM
JOHN McCUSKER / THE TIMES-PICAYUNE
The Army Corps of Engineers has completed a tree inventory along 512 miles of Mississippi River levee in southeast Louisiana as a first step toward determining which ones must be removed to ensure access for inspections and emergencies.
But there is no federal money to remove trees from the river levee, so local levee districts will have to pay for the work.
"It's unfortunate that it all has to fall on them, but we'll be there for them with technical assistance, " Powell said.
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/07/trees_on_river_levee_at_risk_...
I think that the estimated winds for the Galveston Hurricane were only about 120 mph, versus 190 for Camille.
From what I remember, it was the storm surge / flooding / fires (many buildings made of wood) that killed most in Galveston; that and the bridge off island went before anybody thought it would be a bad storm.
Things were different then. For example, the highest point on the island was less than 9 feet above sea level. The storm surge was almost 16 feet.
Camille's Eye went right over my school.
Brother Allen(I think) told me the anemometer blew off the roof at 210.
Message to Corps:
Spend less time at the River Ridge Country Club
and their trees.
spend more time at the 17th St Canal painting those rusting pipes:
"The two areas highlighted in red are what I'm interested in.
The top area shows...
duct tape.
The bottom area shows...
Rope suspending hoses which convey hydraulic fluid to and from the pumps. Not steel, but rope. I hope those knots are tied tight.
My guess on the reason those ropes are there? Two winters ago, the Corps pulled the pumps to install extended piping on them which moved the previously submerged hose connections out of the water (to prevent further rusting of the fittings as captured in the pictures above). They probably decided to reuse the same hoses.
Before, those hoses ran from the deck above down to fittings which were underwater. With the extended piping, there was a shorter distance between the pipe on the deck and the new connections on the pumps. But they still had the old hoses, which were now too long and heavy, and they needed to make sure the hoses were not pulling down on the new fittings. So they roped them up. Hardly the best solution, and one has to wonder how well the ropes will hold up in extended storm conditions with the pumps running for eight or twelve hours."
The above from Update 6/12/08.
So to recap:
All hydraulic piping/bolts(non stainless steel) Corps installed is unpainted. And duct tape/rope is
being used to hold them together.
http://fixthepumps.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-on-pipes-and-rust.html
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/events/1900hurr.htm
They estimate that the 1900 Hurricane was a Cat 4 at landfall. Check out the extensive damage from the storm from the above link. The storm killed people all the way up into Canada. A partial excerpt:
C'mon now, take the Galveston Storm in 2008 and it wont even kill 60 people. 6,000 people died in 1900 because they had no clue the storm was coming. Nobody knew what to expect, so people stuck around in places they didn't know they should be and they drowned. These days low lying areas are evacuated long before any storm arrives. Of course there will still be lots of damage, but continually pointing at the 6,000 dead number is total alarmism. Best hopes for less alarmist.
Perhaps that is why I highlighted the description of the damage outside of Galveston. In any case, we also have a vastly higher population density along the Gulf Coast
It sounds like you're saying 'We shouldn't have a disaster, because we have all these alarms now. So why do you all have to keep ringing those loud and scary alarms all the time?'
The alarms are there to say 'This MIGHT be a wolf. In the past, when we didn't prepare, wolves were deadly and scary. Stay Tuned, be prepared.'
I can't believe you actually wrote that sentence this close to the anniversary of Katrina's landfall.
Hurricanes are very unpredictable. It is not feasible to order people to leave the entire possible strike area far enough in advance for people to actually get out, and authorities don't do that. If a major hurricane makes an unexpected turn just as it nears land, the odds of major loss of life are actually quite high, depending on where it hits of course.
Barrier islands like Galveston's are especially susceptible. The storm surge can overwash the island, which is what happened in 1900. There isn't much of a high ground - low ground distinction in that case. The only thing to do is get off the island. And because of population density and a limited number of bridges, you need to start the evacuation days in advance.
Galveston didn't have enough warning to evacuate in 1900 because of the state of weather forcasting back then. But the same thing can happen today if a hurricane were to make an unpredictable move.
I remember them saying interstates would be turned one way out.
That never happened in NO or Houston.
it won't happen this time either.
In NO Take I 10 West from Jefferson.
I 10 E to Slidell.
Hwy 90 to the E, the later you leave.
If you stay get to the North MS River Levee.
Fill up now.
Ignorance rampant.
I remember them saying interstates would be turned one way out.
That never happened in NO or Houston.
Contraflow, running both sides of the Interstates in the same direction was done flawlessly, an A or an A+, for Katrina. I know because I drove out on the wrong side of I-10 and I-59 (all signs pointed wrong direction, etc.). Contraflow ended in Meridian.
Texas screwed it up and killed 40+ people, but they did move a couple of million people out of Houston for Rita with contraflow.
BTW, just where is the "North MS Levee" ?
We have East Bank and West Bank, no "North".
You claim to be from New Orleans but if the eye of Camille went over your high school, you must be from the Mississippi Casino Coast.
Alan
Yeah! Another stinking hurricane is on the way!
We in Florida just spent the week dealing with Fay, now Gustav is on the way. Crap. Oh well, gas was getting too cheap anyway.
Sorry Mad_Man.
Further down in Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog:
I'd rather be in earthquake country...
I spent some time in Cali and Hawaii so I have some experience with earthquakes too. (We even had an earthquake here in Florida a few years ago. I was afraid it was a sinkhole opening up under the house!)
The biggest trouble with hurricanes is they take FOREVER. Fay gave us rain for four days. The anxiety buildup is terrible. The Weather Channel goes into 'hurricane mode' two days before landfall and everyone's nerves are set on edge. Our house got a direct hit by the eyes of Charlie, Francis, and Jeanne in 2004. Now, my wife is super-sensitive to any storm with a name. (I will admit, I don't like them either).
I just checked the NOAA site and Gustav appears to be repeating Katrina/Rita's path of 2005. Everyone might want to fill up a couple spare gas cans before Sunday.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/index.shtml
Wimp! Florida resident here :-)
Seriously though, not exactly looking forward to the next couple of weeks...
One nice thing about Fay is that Georgia is getting dumped on with rain today. Here's hoping it increases the level on the reservoir for Atlanta significantly. That would help Florida too, since the Apalachicola bay wouldn't have to fight as hard to keep its water.
Here's The Weather Underground's Dr Jeff Masters (acknowledged hurricane expert formerly with NOAA) latest comment
NOAA are saying that Gustav will probably enter the Gulf of Mexico as a Cat 4 hurricane.
Accu-weather is saying it might be a Category 5.
Of course, Accu-weather usually isn't. ;-)
"Accu"-Weather usually gets hysterical about hurricanes and snowstorms.
It might be a Cat 5. Also, it might not. :-)
Sort of like their snowfall forecasts: "up to 10 inches or more".
If you think about it for just a second, you realize that statement covers anything from zero to infinity.
Every Olympic final, they would show all the contestants, and say things like "He's a contender for a medal." Well, yes. That's why it's an Olympic Final.
NOAA are saying potential wind speed of 135-140 miles per hour. They expect it to remain mostly over water, missing both Cuba and the Yucatan peninsular which accounts for the higher category as it enters the Gulf.
It's early yet. Forecasts change, and it's still a week before we really have to worry about it.
Still, this one is looking kinda scary. It's forecast to hit somewhere between Houston and New Orleans, which means oil infrastructure will be affected. (Note to self: top off gas tank.)
"I give a 60% chance that Gustav will cause significant disruption to the oil and gas industry in the Gulf."
Dr Jeff Master's Wunderblog
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=1042&...
Still early tho, and 2 models give a landfall around the Yucatan.
Which is why I am waiting till Thursday morning to "worry" about Gustav.
Best Hopes for a Kenedy County landfall,
Alan
At least it seems NOLA doesn't get hit by male named storms. Best hopes for this trend to continue!
75776. if you are a business owner, take your occupational license with you
by nolanative19, 8/26/08 20:33 ET
Click to view these responses
1. it will get you back... by nolanative19, 8/26/08
The Louisiana National Guard has been put on alert and could be called up, Jindal said. The number of Guardsmen and the place of deployment will be determined as the direction of the storm becomes clearer, Jindal said.
"Be ready, now's the time to review your plans," Jindal said. "This is a serious storm."
State officials are about to enter a tiered system of emergency alert, Jindal said. The tiers include levels 1, 2 and 3, with level 1 being the most serious. The higher the alert, the more staff goes to work and the more preparations are made for evacuations. The state is expected to enter a Level 3 on Wednesday followed by Level 2 on Thursday, depending on the storm's activity.
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/jindal_outlines_tentative_pla...
The GDFL landfalls on Sunday August 31. Once it crosses Cuba on the 30th at 6Z it races across the gulf in a day and a half at 31st 18Z.
http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/gfdltc2.cgi?time=2008082612-gustav07l&fie.... If some reason that scenario panned out there would not be much time to prepare. The next thing people would be complaining that the NHC did not give adequate warning in time. I think that is why they put in the warning this morning of a dangerous major cane in the central Caribbean this morning.
Faster is better, though, isn't it? Less time to "power up."
That doesn't help if it is a cat 4 after crossing Cuba. And it moving quickly once it passes the loop current, not much time to loose power over the lower heat content of the northern gulf.
Katrina was a Cat one the Friday it passed over Fla., it turned Cat 5 once it hit the GOM.
One of the things to watch is the size of the storm. I think this is usually measured by the total amount of circulation. Higher curculation means a given level of intensity covers a greater area. Currently, Gustav is said to be small, but pretty intense given its young age. Its size could increase, hopefully not, but we will see. Camile was a small, but very intense storm. An absolute diasaster if you are very close to the center of the storm, but the overall affected area was not so large. Katrina was a very large storm, not as intense as Camile, but the area affected was much larger.
Check out the 0Z HWRF http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/hwrf_nested/storm_1/00/..., yeah that's an 896 that is in the middle of it. Talk about powered up.
The tone of the Gustav posts in the forums at Storm2K is strikingly serious. It seems like there's something about this storm that has unnerved the long-time storm watchers.
I hope the folks who have been praying for a deluge to wash out Obama's outdoor speech Thursday night switch to praying that Gustav doesn't become the story at the GOP convention.
Not to mention the other orange blobs rolling our way across the map at the NHC.
Ya...the hurricane train looks loaded...not fun.