I've never been able to come close to John Jeavon's yields using the methods in Grow More Vegetables.... I should probably take a Grow Biointensive class. :)

Has anyone else here been able to come close to the yields listed?

An excellent book for information on the resources required for raising meet animals and the nutritional values of various food groups is "Crisis Preparedness Handbook" by Jack Spigarelli. The feed requirements for animal from rabbits to cows are daunting. For example, enough rabbits (12) to provide an average of 1.5 to 2 lbs of meet per day requires 3.5 tons of commercial feed per year! Or you can make your own feed from corn, grain sorghum, hay, oats, soybeans, and wheat. The acreage to grow that amount of feed is substantial. A dozen laying hens to get close to four dozen eggs a week require 1,200 lbs of mash per year (page 171.)

The space needed to raise meet animals is not very large, it's the land required for the feed which is in scarce supply.

If there are any Bio-Engineers out there perhaps you should get cracking on a new animal that 'eats sunlight'. As a starting point may I suggest a cross beteen a chicken and a billiard table...

Trust me, these 'Pool-Head Chickens' are going to be the norm come the revolution and their legs will be tasty too given all the xtra weight...

Nick.

I raise chickens. Our dozen hens get no grain from green up (April) to 'no more bugs' (October), and about half the listed amount of grain the rest of the time. They do get kitchen scraps, but that's just preprocessing the compost.

Also four eggs/week is poor laying. Rather than almost four, you should get over 5. And a dozen chicken dinners per year: six retired layers, and six cockerels that you raised along with the six replacement pullets.

Thanks for the good news. I was a bit bummed with the numbers in the book. I did some more research and found an article with two key pieces of information.

http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/90/90-3/Jim_Hogue.html

The article is about Carl Hammer in Montpelier, VT who raises 1,400 chickens on primarily restaurant garbage! Even better, was the method for protecting his free range flock from predators. He relies on a single German Shepard.

One fact I have not found yet is the ratio of birds to acres during the spring, summer, and fall that allows for enough forage food that supplemental commercial food is not needed. I'm sure that ratio has a wide variation depending on the makeup of the land. Lawn, hay meadow, meadow no longer hayed and left to grow, shrub growth area, and forest area.

On another note, back in the seventies when we raised a couple of pigs we feed them primarily with day old donuts from Dunkin Donuts in Essex, Jct, VT. We typically picked up two to three bags a day. If I remember correctly, the bags were about 3' tall. I also remember eating quite a few before they got to the pigs:)

Our flock ranges over about two acres. That's pretty much a circle around the coop and includes about everything: lawn, garden, forest (the neighbors) pasture and barnyard. We collect expired food from the local food bank for our pigs (and other animals -- sheep like broccoli the way pigs like chocolate donuts). We've been known to eat a bit ourselves too.

Our winter feed bill for the chickens would likely be higher if they couldn't scavenge seeds from the hay and risk their lives robbing the pigs.

"Has anyone else here been able to come close to the yields listed?"

I have not, but this couple from Hertfordshire in the UK seem to have cracked it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt2qDOwxiUU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2YZhVvFPUc

We've not gotten close to those yields.
My first crop of potatoes was good - but then came beetles.
Tomato yields were great last year - but this year things warmed up earlier - we've not really gotten summer heat - and EVERYTHING (peas, beans, tomatoes, raspberries) is 2 to 3 weeks late (seemingly all across Canada) while it's the first time ever that we've had a crop of lettuce (it usually bolts - but this year we had lettuce well into late July if you don't mind it a bit bitter).
Each year we generally find a wonderful new pest. This year it's flea beetles (destroyed my brassica crops). I've never so much as seen any of my lambs lettuce come up (been trying spring and fall crops 2 years running now). We still don't know what's destroying our beans at the community garden plots, or what's demolishing our kale at the home gardens. My late planting of Brasilian peans worked out well (I'm still getting some every week) and will plant them again. Likely coons are going after my corn - I planted Indian corn for grinding into flour and it's sweet if you eat it (raw) before it changes color and I'm hoping that they'll stay away from it as it's now dark and more starchy. All squash crops are pretty well shot again - vine borers are hell unless you spray spray spray (that now includes our neighbours and community garden).

We do have a "Square Foot Garden" with Mel's mix - and some things are growing well in there - but not the tomatoes (last year they did wonderfully but required watering AT LEAST daily or lots of blossom end rot - this year they seem anemic). Our of our 6 gardens tomatoes are really only growing well in one. By growing well I mean that I have to use more than those toy wire cages and use wooden stakes about 4' high in order to provide enough support to stop the fruit from tearing the plant to pieces (heritage beefstake, "boars heart" and heavy Italian plum types).

It's funny how Jeavons never mentioned humanure outright in his books - although I believe that they did use it (reading between the lines).

We had blossom end rot five years running. Then we read about putting a single "tums" tablet with each plant when planted. This year we've had no blossom end rot. Seems to work.

Blossom-end rot is caused by calcium ion deficiency and very rapid ripening. Work dolomite into your soil before planting next year. This will give you both calcium and magnesium ions, needed for growth of many plants.

For the squash vine borers, I've found in my garden that planting a different species of squash, Cucurbita moschata, results in my having more squash. The borers are less successful in destroying the vines. One particular variety that I've heard called both trombocino and zucchetta is a bit like a long, curly zucchini. It's pretty productive for me down here in NW Georgia, without needing much more time to first-squash than regular zucchini or yellow squash.

Each year we generally find a wonderful new pest. This year it's flea beetles (destroyed my brassica crops).

Been gardening vegetables all my life. Diversity is one key to dealing with pests. Plant small patches of many different varieties, and interleave appropriate vegetables. There's a good book called (IIRC) "tomatoes love carrots," which is a store of useful information on that subject.

I've also just encountered the flea beetle for the first time in my life. (New country, new pests). I had fair success with a "mechanical" pesticide: Diatomaceous Earth. Google it and take a look for yourself, my guess is that it is okay for organic use because it's not a poison. Conquered the flea beetles... :)

Jevons is in California, Nate is in Vermont. If Nate got half the annual yield that Jevons does he'd be the better gardener.

No, I haven't - but then again, I live in a climate with only half the growing season. My own experimentation suggests that a reasonable estimate for most people would be somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 acre per person, allowing for crop failures, errors,climate, etc... That's not to say that the other can't be done, but I prefer not to eat quite so many parsnips myself ;-).

Sharon

I would suggest considering alternative techniques. Bio-intensive requires more inputs than traditional horticulture techniques, such as those used by settlers and indigenous populations across the west. As soon as individual plants come into contact with one another, it is safe to assume that the plants are competing for light, water, and nutrients. Yields per plant will be limited due to crowding. Crowded plants are also stressed plants, and more susceptible to disease and predation. Jevon's "living mulch" is in fact a haven for disease and pests by a)limiting air-flow b)trapping moisture and c)providing cover.

But pull-out every other plant,freeing up space previously occupied, and growth resumes with fewer inputs, larger yields per plant, and in many cases, higher quality produce. Disease and predation are limited as a)progressive thinning selects for the fittest individuals, b)increased airflow checks virus populations, and c)limited cover shifts the balance towards predator populations.

Steve Solomon is an informed source for this approach. His latest book is "Gardening When It Counts: Growing Food in Hard Times." I also highly recommend his virtual library: www.soilandhealth.org. In an age of scarcity, his book "Gardening Without Irrigation" may also prove useful: http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030201/03020100frame.html

Solomans books are the tops in the field.I use them like a bible.

Plant a whole bunch of different types of fruit trees...some will do well one year,some will do well the next.The most steady suppliers I have found is a chojoro Asian pear,and a Sparatan apple.At the elevation I am at,and the location.[Your milage may vary]

I think that's incorrect generally, perhaps correct specifically. If you live in an area where the sunlight is so strong that it kills plants (as I do) then overcrowding actually helps.

Why is it "safe to assume" that as soon as they come into contact they are competing, if soil contains higher concentration of nutrients across a broad spectrum than plants require then the overcrowding will reduce ion concentrations in soil in a helpfull way.

There are also several good reasons to overcrowd from a pest control point of view. Take cabbage moth for example, it flies around quasi-randomly lobbing on anything that looks cabbage like, if after several tries in a particular patch it fails to find a cabbage it will wander off into another patch. So, hide your cabbages in amongst non brassica plants.

(I thouight this was new age bullshit when I read about it but I actually observed cabbage moths performing exactlty this behaviour only 3 days ago. )

Progressive thinning to select for the strongest individual is the only point of yours that I would agrree on.

To each his own however and may your harvest be bountiful whatever your method.

I have been following the low input Solomon approach in subtropical Australia with a few adaptations and I have found he is right on the money. We have just gone over two months with no rainfall and I am only just now considering watering my vegetables from a rainwater storage tank. The key is to store your rain when it comes within the soil by cultivating deeply but gently, and by providing ample nutrients to your crops so they dont have to use up all the soil moisture to access them. And spacing your plants generously, while weeding religiously, means you can balance the water demands of your crop with the available rain water. As an example of how superfluous watering by hand is I have had pumpkins germinate and a crop of fair quality lettuce grow in my garden from directly sowed seeds through two months of zero rain, and no hand watering. Just put them into properly prepared and maintained soil and up they come like magic. The time otherwise spent waving a hose around is better spent gently mowing down the weeds as they germinate with a good quality sharp hoe.

The only modification I have made of his method is to divide my garden into two halves, one for a summer crop of heat loving veggies, and another for the winter crop of frost tolerant ones. The summer crop gets the end that is heavily shaded in winter, the winter crop gets the side that is more dry and exposed in summer but gets good winter light. When the crops arent growing I put in dense rows of green manure crops (just packets of food grade broad beans, and whole animal feed oats) that get cut by hand multiple times through the season (and some tossed to the chooks). This does amazing things to soil texture- and it is far more time effective than turning a concentrated compost heap and digging it in everywhere. It also means you can water them with urine to enrich the soil without worrying about contaminating your crops.

Best of all it means I get to sow my crops at the perfect time and can let a long running crop like eggplants finish off properly since they don't need to be shifted to make room for the next rotation.

I would also agree with the estimation of about four to five people per acre of staple crops as a safe estimate for reasonably fertile soil with about 1000 mm of rain a year. Under ideal conditions you could manage double this, but halving it leaves a margin for error for crop failures. It also gives you enough surplus to feed stock in the good years and improve the quality of your diet. Drought years then mean just having less chicken dinners, rather than actually starving.

To my mind novice gardeners are often setting themselves up for unneccesary trouble growing vegetables. They dont realise that some are very robust and easy (kale and collards) while related versions can be extremely finicky (cauliflower, brussel sprouts). Reliance on store bought seedlings is another major problem- the sooner you learn to handle the power of seeds the better, but be aware that most store bought seeds are terrible quality. They sometimes take on too much species diversity at once, rather than picking out a smaller subset of new species to get a handle on each year. You can tackle these two problems together by making sure you buy multiple strains of a type of vegetable (eg beans) from lots of different sources to grow side by side the first year. This will show you how much seed quality can vary, and also show you how different varieties will perform very differently in your garden. Next year you can just grow the best two or three that serve different purposes, preferably from your own seed. And finally they put too much emphasis on watery vegetables and neglect to master growing life sustaining staples like starchy root crops and drying legumes. In the short term home grown vegetables offer the best economic and quality advantages over store bought ones, but you need to have experience in growing staple crops in case you ever need to really feed your family in times of need.