218 comments on Hurricane Ike, Energy Infrastructure, Refineries and Damage Models Thread #4 (Updated 9/12 23:00 EDT)
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218 comments on Hurricane Ike, Energy Infrastructure, Refineries and Damage Models Thread #4 (Updated 9/12 23:00 EDT)
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GAIA Host Collective
Anyone knows to what extent electricity is back in NOLA refineries? Could this lead to simultaneous shutdown of some LA and TX refining capacity?
I was wondering the same thing... With a storm as big as Ike, certainly there will be a huge impact to electricity infrastructure.
Do refineries absolutely require grid power, or can they work with backup power? Are there enough supplies and crews to repair Gustav and Ike damage at the same time?
I suppose Chuck took this into account?
I am not sure about that. Everyone sees Ike as relatively low intensity for winds. Flooding is the major risk.
In such circumstances residential distribution lines are at risk and we should see lots of homes without current due the the large surface covered by Ike, But I would expect high voltage transmission lines to be built to hurricane tolerances in places like Texas. I suspect it would take some major wind force to take them out. This could help refineries to do fine electricity wise.
See my question below: what wave force is the transmission infrastructure rated for? "Flooding" seems like the wrong term- hurricane-driven waves will bring a lot of force to bear on anything solid and attached to the ground.
Gustav managed to damage high voltage lines even at a smaller size and being a Cat 2 storm at landfall. Ike is much bigger and probably a Cat 2/3 at landfall.
I follow you. I would expect people NOT to build their homes on the very beach of Texas, due to .... you know.BTW which insurance company do they use?
Yes, however, the substations and other equipment are still on the ground. I've seen flood remediation work on flooded homes. Basically, ALL the electrical stuff that gets wet has to be replaced. The water carries dirt and grit that settles into everything, and makes future use of the electrical equipment dodgy.
When the ground turns to soup due to flooding, its hard to keep things standing upright even in 50mph winds.
That logic goes for coastal areas. In land it is another story.
In related news Jeff Masters now predicts the largest power failure in the history of Texas. He knows far better than me. I will crawl back under my soap box.
As of a couple of days ago, 11 of 12 refineries had grid power (sometimes one tie where they had two before).
Since I have heard nothing, I assume all are now happily refining away.
Alan
Alas, this is not the case. Based on what I know, some (maybe most) refineries are on "hot standby". Ike is causing nat gas supply issues due to evacuation in the Henry Hub area. Also, most refineries cannot run on internal power even if they have cogeneration capabilities. They usually require grid connections.
Stupid is as stupid does
One way grid sucking is old school , Why not contribute
to the stability of the grid instead of cratering it. Electrons flow to where the customers & dollars are.
Lot's of fumes to run these plants on AND help support LOCAL grid infrastructure.
But no, we have to pay for stranded costs,
Market now demands the cleanest electrons . FIT's (Feed In Terrifs) needed, but often not possible even on the mega-watt level, must import kwH from hundreds of miles away. In the early 80's we did auto transfer (grid drop )for safety and obvious reasons on Hydrocarbon complexes. We had to have a battery room for transfer to keep the brains up, but today required battery's could fit in a Yukon (or even Prius) instead of bunkers. So the up issue should not be the grid. But it may be to dated
designs