54 comments on POLL: CLV08 went through $91/bbl..so, in the next 60 days, the front month price of CL will...
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54 comments on POLL: CLV08 went through $91/bbl..so, in the next 60 days, the front month price of CL will...
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If the economy really has contracted enough to make this big a difference, we are in big trouble. Also, why the releases from the SPR now, and none at the height? The upcoming election wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?
The last 8 years has made me extremely cynical with regards to politicians and markets. We are still at peak with oil, the signs are all evident, but, the manipulation is horrendeous.
Lives are being totally jerked around and destroyed with flagrant disregard. It's like everyone has found themselves on a giant battlefield, where a massive power struggle ensues, and we are mere insects being trampled underfoot.
Ragnarok comes to mind.
In Norse mythology, Ragnarök (IPA: /rɑgnɑrɔk/, Old Norse "Final destiny of the gods"[2]) refers to a series of major events, including a great battle foretold to ultimately result in the death of a number of major figures (including the gods Odin, Thor, Freyr, Heimdall, and the jötunn Loki), the occurrence of various natural disasters, and the subsequent submersion of the world in water. Afterwards, the world resurfaces anew and fertile, the surviving gods meet, and the world is repopulated by two human survivors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarok
If we can keep our consumption well below the rate at which cheap oil can be produced then it won't cost us all that much to transition off of oil because the price of oil will be low. If we consume in a way that encourages exploration for more oil, then oil is going to have to be expensive while we run out of it and our transition will be expensive. So, the best thing to do is to cut consumption to a level where we discourage exploration.
Chris
I like the spirit of what you are saying, but the reality is that, so far, demand has proven extremely inelastic. China and India are not on the same page with you. This is going to turn out very differently. The price of oil is headed up sharply. What is the price of 25,000 hours of human labor worth? $100? I think not, even if you can pump it out of an underground lake somewhere in the ME, that has little bearing on the future value of oil vis-a-vis other commodities. In the short run, paper beats oil, but in the long run oil trumps paper. Everything becomes expensive very quickly. Unrecognizable landscape in 5 years.
Because the US is the largest consumer, it can control price unilaterally until it becomes a non-consumer. China and India cannot grow their consumption over the next fifteen years fast enough to cause the price to increase if we are removing 25% of the current world demand over the same period. The world can't make ICE cars that fast and they can't buy them that fast. You can't ship our used SUVs to them because they don't have enough roads to use them. So, we are in a position to make sure that our transition off of oil is not accompanied by high oil prices because we dominate the demand in the market.
Chris
The current "realeases" from SPR are really just loans that get repaid in even more oil. No pun intended, but think of it as more "liquidity" than an injection.
There's actually too much crude to go around right now with refineries down. BUT... there are some refineries that can't get the crude that is available (port damage, etc), so the SPR is supplying that.
Cid I agree 100% everyone is trumpeting how much consumption is falling and its resulting in low prices but yet the number one indicator that reliable Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) has been falling since 2005 and prices have not fallen. Perfectly correlated with the housing bust and perfectly correlated with previous housing busts.
But even here I wonder if the numbers make sense.
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot10208.htm
So lets say your getting 30 miles to the gallon on average then 29.8 billion miles is 1 billion gallons of gasoline say 40 gallons to the barrel gives 1,000/40.0 = 25 million barrels.
Over 5 months thats 5 million barrels a month or 5000/30.0 = 166kbd decline.
Assuming the average is not 30 mpg but a bit worse the result fits well with this which indicates about 500kpd decline in 2008.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/steo
Once you consider some reasonable error bars demand destruction or decline in the US is barely significant.
At 25 mpd of oil consumption this 2-3% change is just barely outside of the error in the measurements maybe.
So even as overall consumption continued to increase and the US decline has just barely hit measurable levels
the demand destruction has suddenly caused the price of oil to fall dramatically even though the trends in consumption have been slowly changing over a period of years ?
Sorry don't think so. Next I think that the claims of demand destruction should be vetted what I see is simply the results of supply and demand in balance with and additional changes readily reconciled by considering the crash of the fuel intensive house building industry and associated business. Just like every other year housing crashed and VMT flattened.
You need to consider that much of the rest of the world is going into recession, or at least slowing down. US, EU, and Japan are all going into recession, while China and India are cooling. Decoupling just hasn't been the case.
Slowing from 15-20% to 10%. Sure growth is slowing I'm not saying its not but its been slowing since 2006 and will continue to slow and the increase in oil demand is declining but this is not yet a overall decline in oil consumption globally. And its not a fast process demand declines cannot be used to justify monthly changes in oil price. Demand did not suddenly decline in July-August the world economy simply cannot respond that fast.
And the graph I gave of the rest of the world does not show and overall decline.
Slowing growth rates is not the same as and absolute decline in demand and from the graphs its taken years of high prices to slow the worlds economy. It will take years before demand trends downwards.
People claiming demand destruction as the reason for the current pricing changes are using a variable that changes slowly over a period of years to explain events that happened over a few months.
These two variables operate over completely different time scales. And further more given the data we have on export land any changes in consumption patterns in importing countries have bee canceled by growth in producing countries.
Bottom line is in my opinion 2008 is not markedly different from 2007
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2007/res1017b.htm
These numbers are still not negative we are still talking about positive growth rates and implicitly increases in oil demand albeit at a slower rate. And further more outside of housing and the auto industry most of this decline is in the financial sector which is not a energy intensive part of the economy.
The only slowing part of the economy that uses significant quantities of oil is the housing industry.
But again this decline has been happening for some time and prices have been rising through out the decline period.
I'm not going to drag in a number of links but you have plenty of information available that show housing starts have slowed dramatically over the last several years. Outside of the decline of housing other economic indicators are just now starting to turn to slower and slower growth rates.
Bottom line is I see no indication that we have yet hit the point that significant overall demand destruction plays a large role in the supply and demand equation for oil. Demand is still quite healthy.
I do believe at some point as the world wide recession begins in earnest we will see demand decline in concert with supply declines if this results in lower prices long term slowing the rate of increases or flat prices for oil is almost impossible to predict. But I can't see how you can take the worlds current economic data and come to the conclusion that demand for oil has dropped. At best the rate of increase in demand has slowed some right now in importing countries. I even agree its gone slightly negative for the US.
You keep claiming that oil demand destruction in the US is due to lower housing construction, but you keep not showing any evidence for that claim. So I went and looked.
Oil consumption does not seem to be broken out for the construction industry in the US, but it is for Canada, which should give a rough estimate of how the US industry works.
The Canadian construction industry consumed 36,000TJ of petroleum-derived products in 2002, or about 16kb/d. The US economy is about 10x larger than the Canadian economy, so the US construction industry would have used about 0.16Mb/d of oil in 2002. Presuming the US construction industry doubled in size between 2002 and its height in 2005, at its peak it would have used about 0.3Mb/d of oil, or about 1.5% of US oil consumption.
For reference, this is also about the amount used by the Australian construction sector, so the estimate of about 1-2% should be fairly robust.
Total private construction spending in the US is down about 15% from its peak. Accordingly, we would expect this to reduce oil use by the sector by 15%, leading to a drop of 15% of 2% of 20Mb/d, or about 0.06Mb/d.
Hence, evidence suggests that the drop in construction activity in the US can directly account for only about 10% of the drop in oil demand.
You're confusing correlation with causation. Housing crashes tend to happen at the same time as recessions, which tend to happen at the same time as people driving less.