Yes, you've got to do SOMETHING !!!

There is no mechanic available but we know damn well the car only runs when the Fan Belt is turning - so hurry up and just stick your hand in there and YANK that fan belt - that will stop the engine ... I think, I'm pretty sure...

IF there is one Saving Grace of the current Financial Meltdown, it is that the Climate Changers like Hanson and Homer-Dixon will be soon be unemployed, homeless and a danger only to themselves and those in their immediate vicinity.

Yes, you've got to do SOMETHING !!!

It's good to remember, I think, that sometimes moving quickly is exactly what's required.

Yes, move quickly into the fire, the frying pan was getting hot.

ONLY when we know what we are doing. we are already messing with the climate one way, hastily doing it in another way to try to stop the effects of the first way will be the death of us. Geo-engineering to try to keep the planet the way we want it instead of using the energy and money to adapt to the new environment is a huge mistake.

a more apt analogy is that we are a blindfolded bomb tech, trying to defuse a bomb that has no timer, while someone screams in our ear's to just cut wires till it stops ticking.

"ONLY when we know what we are doing"... Geo-engineering to try to keep the planet the way we want it..."

Utter insanity.

Trying to stop spewing CO2 is one thing, trying to deliberately alter the climate is another.

Besides, it doesn't matter. We are undergoing Collapse. Nature has already taken things into Her own hands.

Sorry Homo Saps, but TimezUp.

if you properly read my comment i am against geo-engineering.

Sorry TrueKaiser - it was late, and I was in a rush.

And your analogy with the Bomb tech and "just hurry and cut the wires" is spot on.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Conservation is instantaneous

If you care about your childern
and the people yet to come
best you think about tomorrow
and just slow that Hummer down

"Conservation is instantaneous"

Yes, I agree.

But dump the hummer. Get a big stone head on your lawn if you need desperately to impress people.

IF there is one Saving Grace of the current Financial Meltdown, it is that the Climate Changers like Hanson and Homer-Dixon will be soon be unemployed, homeless and a danger only to themselves and those in their immediate vicinity.

I hope for a more ironic outcome.

Jeers

I agree.

the sooner Hansen is shown up for the fraud he is , the better.

I tried to post a few ripostes earlier, but they appear to have 'disappeared'.

Basically, I want to see some Physics wrt CO2 and warming beyond about 550 ppm atmos.

I would like to see a correlation between CO2 increases and temperature increases above that of the climb out of the LIA.

I would like to see correlation between fossil CO2 and the following:

Holocene warm period
Dark Age Minima
Medieval Warm Period
Little Ice Age
The 1970's cooling scare
The 1990's warming scare

I would also like to see why the impact CO2 is way above and beyond impact of the following:

Water Vapour
Solar Activity

What you posted were not "ripostes". They were rude, crude, all-caps trash. I tried "riposting" to one of them, but by the time I was done, I was "replying to a message that doesn't exist". Which is a good thing.

Are you drunk tonight or something? The stuff you wrote is really not in any way useful, and you should be glad that very few people saw it.

read this

you need to read it all for the subtleties.

http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/howmuch.htm

Have fun.

dorme bien.

The response of co2 on temperature is approximately 10 ppm/degC

I can't even parse what that first sentence is supposed to mean. Life is short, so with such an unpropitious beginning, I sure haven't time to read on and try to decipher it.

You're using a personal blog as scientific proof of "science" you don't even understand?

So you're suggesting we should continue the experiment we have underway already, and continue dumping millions of tons of CO2 into the air every year?

There's a 5% chance that branch you are sawing isn't the one you're sitting on. Don't bother to look, just saw faster!

(hint: any credible climate model already includes insolation and water vapor)

Do realize, however, that the experiment will continue for quite a long time regardless of what M might wish to suggest, as no one has yet proposed a sociopolitically feasible alternative.

I know.

In fact I am just cynical enough to have much of my savings invested in fossil fuel of one sort or another. Even thinking of getting into some coal stock.

the sooner Hansen is shown up for the fraud he is , the better.

Support this. You may, for reasons noble or otherwise, disagree with the man, but I have never seen any claim he is a liar of any sort before. I will be locating contact info for him and forwarding your libelous comments to him. I doubt he will care, but I will feel better.

I would also like to see why the impact CO2 is way above and beyond impact of the following:

Water Vapour
Solar Activity

You appear to have zero interest in the truth as evidenced by the fact the above has already been explained on these forums. To you, I believe. Here is a thorough explanation: Water vapour: feedback or forcing?

How about some Pliocene Greenland ice build up due to (gasp!) a fall in CO2.

The following is a nice of example of how all your heroes do their work:

How to cook a graph in three easy lessons

And here is THE study on how the skepticism is all bull hockey: Smoke, Mirrors
& Hot Air
(.pdf warning.)

The report documents that, despite the scientific consensus about the fundamental understanding that global warming is caused by carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping emissions, Exxon-Mobil has funneled about $16 million between 1998 and 2005 to a network of ideological and advocacy organizations that manufacture uncertainty on the issue. Many of these organizations have an overlapping—sometimes identical—collection of spokespeople serving as staff, board members, and scientific advisors. By publishing and republishing the non-peer-reviewed works of a small group of scientific spokespeople, Exxon-Mobil-funded organizations have propped up and amplified work that has been discredited by reputable climate scientists.

I repeat my challenge: Show me ONE scientifically sound, peer-reviewed, published study refuting global warming that has not already been shot down by real science and real scientists.

You cannot, so why do you persist?

Jeers

EDIT: E-mail sent. No, I don't expect a response,but, you know what?, I DO feel better.

Hey ccpo,

Of course we all have the right to disagree. Some just do it less belligerently than others.

Certain arguments have an intellectual content and others do not, I leave you to judge.

Strangely we all know that Ruminant methane (Bovines etc) and Termite methane are a far greater greenhouse problem than CO2. Those you mention are a factor as well.

Having said that I think we must all agree that our planets weather systems appear to be changing. The arctic will be ice free for the first time and certain other events and temperatures seem to be different.

I will give you a possible intellectual argument as to why we may have a Hydro-Carbon burning problem.

Lets look at Thermos bottle-Earth. Nature spent some few million years collecting Sun heat and energy in forests which covered most of the planet.

For about 50 years we have been creating one massive tree-burning forest fire many times the area of the planet.

Personally I think it is a no-brainer.

Are we spewing out a million years of CO2 in 50 years --- YES.

Are we spewing out a million years of captured heat in 50 years -- Of course.

Do the red necks and the Politicians know what they are talking about -- Hell! NO

Do the Capitalists care -- not until it affects their bottom line. Selling Fresh-Air sounds like a growth industry to me.

Do WE care -- Ha! Ha! we see no higher than our navels.

Can the scientists prove Global Warming -- When they can prove it, it will be too late, and we will have to kiss our asses good-bye.

Graham

Strangely we all know that Ruminant methane (Bovines etc) and Termite methane are a far greater greenhouse problem than CO2. Those you mention are a factor as well.

No, I'm afraid that is not true. While methane is a more potent greenhouse gas on a kg-for-kg basis, the amount of CO2 release is vastly greater than the amount of methane, and therefore CO2 is in fact a greater problem.

For some background reading, check out http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/07/co2-is-not-the-onl... as well as: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/10/co2-equivalents/

You can see by reading the second link that the ratio between CO2 forcing and methane forcing is 1.66:0.48, so CO2 is a larger forcing effect. Also, methane release isn't primarily due to termites and cows; rice cultivation is actually very important, as is flaring of NG, and perhaps soon release from melting tundra.

and there is also the IPCC report for more details.

"the sooner Hansen is shown up for the fraud he is , the better."

He is not a fraud.

they are (or at least were) doing something.

working out ways to fleece peoople:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/09/21/do...

>>What is the connection between the bankrupt Lehman Brothers and the likelihood that in four years' time our electricity bills will jump another 25 per cent (on top of the rises likely from soaring coal and gas prices)?
The answer is that, before its collapse, Lehman was pitching to become the leader in the vast trade created by the new worldwide regulatory system to "fight climate change" by curbing emissions of carbon dioxide.<<

Snip.

>>Advised by some of the world's leading global warming activists, such as Dr James Hansen and Al Gore (a close friend of the firm's erstwhile managing director Theodore Roosevelt IV), Lehman bought their message wholesale. GIM, the company set up by Gore to sell "carbon offsets" in return for planting trees, was a prized Lehman client.<<

Well....

Where thas muck thas brass...