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284 comments on Some Lessons from Bailout Month
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284 comments on Some Lessons from Bailout Month
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Here is a video from Karl Denninger that is interesting.
**FLASH** The REAL REASON For The Bailout
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GqIFoBXGizc
LOL -- No Banker Left Behind
COL -- 700B of Shanghai junk paper
Karl Denninger is the man. Unfortunately, the Argentinization of America is proceeding right on schedule. Realistically, if you want to predict the actions of the USA federal government on any issue you simply need to look at the effect on the roughly 1200 global billionaires. This is a lot of fun for those guys so they need to push it through regardless of public opposition or the effect on the economy. This is just the beginning.
Also, Paulson is the lead guy, but a lot of "squeaky clean good guys" are out there screaming loudly for this bill-Barack Obama and Warren Buffett are just two of them.
Sold to you.
It's often as much about what is NOT said or written...
Thanks to Mish...
Rep. Brad Sherman On Bailing Out Foreign Investors
Here is a video clip explaining the foriegn bailout of the banksters with the MSNBC clip emedded near the beginning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AvbYUu1Mg
It is outrageous that the US taxpayer will bail out Chinese, Japanese, British, Aistrailian, etc., toxic debt.
GROCK, just went there and got this: This video has been removed by the user.
It didn't say anything about the bailout having to include foreign interests in order to protect the derivative market did it?
Hello Ignatz, that is very curious! Yes there is a provision that would allow foreign banks that have an American presence to dump toxic financial instruments onto the "bailout" plan. I am concerned that we are witnessing the clampdown of free-speech.
Found the link directly to his website:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/596-The-TRUTH-About-The-Bail...
Did the Big-Boyz come down on YouTube? Was it swamping their servers? If so that would be good but if it was the Plutocrats taking him off then the fix is in.
THE FIX IS IN, THE PATRICIAN SENATE CARES MORE ABOUT THE BANKSTERS AND FOREIGN BANKS THAN THE WORKERS AND MIDDLE CLASS.
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATIUON:THE SENATE HAS LOST ITS RESPECT FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, NOW THE HOUSE WILL BE TESTED AGAIN.
Hello Ignatz, that is very curious! Yes there is a provision that would allow foreign banks that have an American presence to dump toxic financial instruments onto the "bailout" plan. I am concerned that we are witnessing the clampdown of free-speech.
Found the link directly to his website:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/596-The-TRUTH-About-The-Bail...
Did the Big-Boyz come down on YouTube? Was it swamping their servers? If so that would be good but if it was the Plutocrats taking him off then the fix is in.
It's not curious, it's a choice.
If they do not allow foreign banks to liquidate the toxic debt they then no foreigner will touch US assets or the $. All the dollars held abroad will be repatriated and the dollar is toast.
So either they hyper inflate or the dollar is toast, and if they do inflate then the $ is toast anyway.
That is the true dilema and there is now no way out. All they can hope for is to stall for time.
When the crissis hits in full global trade will collapse.
Since the US is importing so much oil there will then be an immediate energy crisis for the US. Followed by war or should I say more war.
Try this
http://supportedthebailout.org/
Thanks musashi, All the rape you can stand in less than one minute?:)
youtube does other things to hide inconvenient videos - like the complete SNL Palin/Clinton skit video address, which youtube kept replacing with a shorter FOX News report on the skit instead.
I have lost respect for YouTube then.
My son sent me an URL for the SNL Palin spoof: http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704...
I just checked it, it still is there.
My son sent me an URL for the SNL Palin spoof: http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704...
I just checked it, it still is there.
Denninger is wrong.
It has everything to do with Main Street, with sending your kid to college, with buying a house, a car, the WHOLE AMERICAN PIE.
If Paulson isn't allowed to appease our creditors it is the end of "The American Way of Life".
Don't listen to Denninger or Mish or any of the others because this Bailout is about our ability to retain GLOBAL reserve currency status and therefore dominance, and therefore keep a quarter of what the world has to offer flowing in our direction.
Which they will fail to do but they have to try.
After this failure they have to try to keep the bootie flowing , as outlined in the Economic Hitmans Bible, at the point of a gun.
Which they will fail at also but…
What effect will this have on Peak Oil? HHHMMMMMMMMmmm?
I know, too cynical for you all. Lets armchair QB the political machinations instead. BS!
Revolution
Denninger is sometimes a good read. But this clip is absurd.
The argument that the Bail Out should be opposed because the money will fly overseas is pure demagogery - condescending, trite.
Note he gives absolutely no reason why the US / Bush / Paulson / etc. would do such a thing. If he wants to paint them as evil madmen (which they may very well be) he has to add a little something to his argument.
Adding something would mean describing the situation better, e.g. to be very mild, that global finance is so complex that the appellation ‘foreign’ is meaningless; or, more forcibly, that the bad paper is spread about and some very powerful entities hold huge amounts of it.
In the US, nay sayers are sometimes even clumsier and dopier than the PTB. Shame on them.
Hmmm...so Paulson's refusal and Bush's veto of the plan if the foreign bank provision was removed is not salient. I believe your belief that they would not bail them out is contradicted by their actions. Observe them in action. First they tried to blast the bill through using scare tactics. Then Paulsen said he would brook no changes. Now a part of the bill has been exposed to bail foreign banks. What else do we not know of at this time? Have they been truthful?
I've got a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn I need to sell you ASAP!
Perhaps, (and I admit this the viewpoint of a non-American citizen), if there is to be a bailout plan, why shouldn't it also bailout foreign investors who are suffering the fall-out of the mess created by US financial madness?
I'm not saying I like the bailout. In fact I think that it is indeed just another way to get taxpayers to pay for the mess created by rich and wealthy. The rich and wealthy get bailed out, and there aren't even any provisions in place to make sure this doesn't happen again. It is bascically saying, go ahead, take silly risks, the tax payer will bail you out if things go wrong.
But then again, if there is to be a bailout, why should foreign investors, who are just a much a victim of this US created madness not get bailed out as well?
The problem was not created by the working class in the US, and that is who would have to shoulder the bail out. If foreign investors took a risk of participating in this mess, they also took the risk of enjoying the rewards if it was successful.
The problem here is painting with Broad strokes, The problem started in the US, but only by a small number of folks. the ones who are responsible for this mess are not being held accountable. The ones who will end up paying for it had little to do with it. The idea of further passing on the burden of the global consequences to the working guys and gals who will have to pay for the irresponsibility of the likes of Paulson and Co. is distressing. We should make Wall Street pay for it, nationalize their assets, their McMansions on Long Island, etc, and if that still does not cove the costs, we should demand a hefty price in pounds of flesh from these criminals.
How many of the working class voted for George Bush though?
In a democracy, the voters are responsible for which government officials they elect. Surely that is the idea behind the system.
I'm with you Bob. If people are too stupid to understand the consequences of their votes, they deserve what they get...I'm just sorry me and mine get those consequences as well.
1. If there is one group of people who are "too stupid", then surely there must be another group of people who are "too smart".
2. If there is one group of people who "deserve" bad consequences, then surely there must be another group of people who do not deserve the same.
3. It does not take a whole lot of guess work to understand which groups are the ones the speaker instinctively places himself in without saying so out loud.
4. Also the agreeable listener will automatically place him or herself in certain ones of these groups and "laugh" at the other groups for being too stupid, ha ha, and being "deserving" while subliminally appreciating that the listener is both too smart and wholly "undeserving" of that or any other bad fate that falls upon the "others". (Hurray for our team, tough luck for them other people.)
So with that in mind, let's make a hypothetical list of people who were "too stupid and "deserved" what they had coming to them:
... mentally challenged students who are ordered by their teacher to march off the edge of a cliff and do so just like lemmings ...
... the brainwashed children at Jones Town who drank the "Kool aid" when instructed to do so by their parents ...
... the victims of the Nazi Holocaust who willing marched onto the death trains under the belief they were going to a "relocation" camp ...
... each of us who has ever eaten a hamburger at McD's ...
... each of us who has ever gotten addicted to nicotine ...
... each of us who has ever gotten addicted to caffeine ...
... each of us who has ever vegged out in front of the TV (boob tube) ...
... each of us who has ever voted for Party A instead of B even though there is no real difference and we're going to get what we "deserve" irrespective of which way we vote because many of the games played in this world are tails-you-lose and heads-they-win games ...
So yes, those "others" were too stupid and "deserved" the bad consequences that befell them.
I'm laughing.
You should be doing the same.
Unless of course, you are one of those "too stupid" people or one of those people "deserving" of a bad fate.
Thank you. Dead on. I'm with stupid.
Books on stupid:
Just How Stupid Are We? Facing the Truth About the American Voter
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_9?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-ke...
Dark Ages America: The Final Phase of Empire
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Ages-America-Final-Empire/dp/0393329771/ref=p...
You've totally missed the point. Voters are not mentally challenged nor in death camps, they are responsible adults. That is the argument for why there should be democracy and not royal prerogative for example. If people give up their hard earned right to select good leaders, and allow a de facto dictatorship, then complain about the poor quality of the leadership - is that not willful stupidity?
"... victims of the Nazis...."
Godwins Rule.
My working premise is that they were brain washed into voting for the "W" (movie coming soon).
They didn't have a fighting chance because them that know what we fear used that avenue into the subconscious to control how the American working class behaved. It's not a matter of "responsible adults" getting what they "deserve" because they act stupid. It's a matter of people who know how to control the masses through thought manipulation taking advantage of their advanced knowledge in evil ways, just like an instructor who guides special children over the cliff's edge. Why do we always blame the victims? Don't the evil doers deserve some of our attention? Do they "deserve" to get away with their crimes? No.
I totally agree. The bailout is not holding the right people accountable.
All I was saying is that IF the bailout goes through. It seems only reasonable to bailout the foreign investors too.
But yeah, I do agree. Those who created the mess should be the one paying for it. Foreign or US/domestic alike.
They snuck in a provision for the banks to have ZERO reserves. Infinite lending with nothing to back it. This will guarantee that the banks are trusted... Right...
They snuck in a provision for the banks to have ZERO reserves. Infinite lending with nothing to back it. This will guarantee that the banks are trusted... Right...
There is one reason I can think of right of the hat: The owners of the countries mentioned might be really pissed off at having been had with all those beautiful investment vehicles the smart boys & gals at Wall street invented.
They might want some of their money back, and being the rich boys from over there, they could have the clout to get some of it.
The big bullies fighting over the loot of the school, leaving all the kids bruised and battered in exchange for all their money and i-pods&phones.
Pathetic. Pathologic.
Paulson is the messenger.
Acting in his capacity of member of the board of directors of the IMF, not as treasury secretary, this is why he can afford to be so arrogant.
He is Guido with the baseball bat, the senators are the drunk daddy that lost his paycheck at the poker table and likes to keep his knee caps, and the tax payers are the babies crying in their crib for a tit to suck on.
Daddy has no balls and the kids don't want to grow up.
Noizette
I'm guessing all this is to protect the derivatives market and as that is global then foreign banks must be included, but in that case I would think Denninger has a point that the cost shouldn't be carried by the US taxpayer alone if they are carried at all.
"Adding something would mean describing the situation better, e.g. to be very mild, that global finance is so complex that the appellation ‘foreign’ is meaningless."
But "US Taxpayer" is not meaningless.
This bill is a monstrosity.
Whenever you hear some grifter use the words "finance" and "complex" in the same sentence, hold onto your wallet and check that your watch is still on your wrist.
Too late ... they're both gone.
Even if passed, give it a week or two and you will be proven wrong.
The hit main street will take in the short term is the exact same with or without the bill, in the longer term it is much worse with the bill.
Passing the bill may buy you a week of dead cat bounces. If that.
I agree. The markets should be hard down this month, in the first of several cascades over the next couple of years. The bill is an opportunistic power grab that will do nothing at all to prevent the great deleveraging that is underway, but will leave a legacy of unaccountable power, ripe for abuse.
I do expect a significant rally into the end of the year though, probably following a temporary bottom (a spike low?) near the end of October. My guess is that the decline would resume, with the beginnings of the next cascade starting in the New Year. 2009 will be the year when Wall Street takes Main Street down with it.
No. Nada. Nyet. My dear Souperman2, it may be the end of "your" American way of life, but not the end of the many many, millions who live a responsible life. American Pie? Well I guess it's "Bye Bye, American Pie, drove the Chevy to the Levee, but the Levee was dry". Dry as in NO MORE FKIN BAILOUTS FOR THE RICH BSTARDS. This Namby Pamby way of thinking, that we can have it all and let someone else pay for it needs to end. Better now, than when we run out of oil.
C_A - You do not understand, THIS IS NOT A BAILOUT.
Yes the wealthy will make out like bandits as they always do but the issue is appeasing the creaditors of the Worlds largest Subprime Borrower, The USA.
If USA looses the ability to borrow then YES the World Will Suffer.
Cheer...... ah screw it.
I think everyone should let others know the problem and write to your local congressperson. They have e-mails. Tell them to vote no on ALL bailout packages or you will vote for whoever runs against them the next time they are up for re-election. They may actually listen to losing their jobs over this.
hey hey tirwin,
I did write my reps, and we do have some leverage over them, but not enough to stop the bill. They are caught in a catch-22.
a) If they vote no and the bill fails, they will be blamed for the economic fallout and it will hurt them at the polls.
b) If they vote yes and the bailout passes but fails to avert catastrophe then they will be blamed at the polls.
There are only two good solutions for getting reelected.
1) Vote with the minority so that the blame falls elsewhere.
2) Vote yes and pray that it works.
Since less than half can be in the minority the majority will vote yes and pray to the free markets or manifest destiny or whatever it is that they really believe in deep down inside, underneath all the spin and PR.
"I am so upset. The Simpsons and their fellow humans voted for your party instead of mine. Obviously they're catching on to the truth."
Um,yeah, well, I did. And all three of my congresscriminals have voted for the bailout. I went a step further and updated my blog with info then e-mailed around 25 family and friends about this issue. Looking at my stats from StatCounter, all but 2 or 3 visits have come via The Oil Drum, so... my efforts are failing miserably.
Sometimes I get a big insight or a lot of info from a seemingly innocuous source. This is one of those times. I reached out to 25 people... and nothing. (I don't even know if the few visits not directly via TOD were any of the people I e-mailed.) This is the US in a nutshell.
The party's over.
Cheers