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177 comments on Gasoline Shortages: Our Inventory Problem
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Interesting diary over at Daily KOS that has a video of one of the gas lines. It was taken by a guy on his bike (you can see his shadow at one point). Worth a look.
Long line at Quik Trip in Atlanta - YouTube video
There are only 92 cars in that line. Sure, it's about half a mile long, but 92 cars isn't really that many. Is it?
I know people have had a problem with waiting in a line forever, and then having the gasoline at the station run out before they could get any. I don't know how much gasoline a station would start with.
I didn't count but you're right, 92 wouldn't be that bad for a station that looks to have 20 places to fill up at. Of course, that doesn't tell you how long they've been waiting or are going to have to wait. Plus it implies that there's nowhere else nearby to go to instead
92 cars isn't much if you are at the front of the line, if your in the back 92 cars is probably enough to let you run out of gas if you were on "E" when you got in the que. Especially if they only have one grade of gasoline and are only pumping on a few pumps.
My brother gassed up at a QuickTrip with 4 pumps per island and 6 islands, they were only serving gas from 1/2 of those pumps and that is after he sat there and watched the tanker truck fill the tank. It was 3 am and there was a car at every pump waiting.
Not pretty, seems like in a multi-state shortage, the feds would get involved? At least institute rationing to restore some semblance of order.
Looks like I'll be getting the bicycle in shape,they're shouldn't be too many cars to dodge on the streets by the end of the week. Wish I had a bike path, I like my job, but I don't want to die for it.
If US cars were fitted with the (still rare) European system where the engine is automatically cut when the car is stationary, and starts again as soon as the gas pedal is pressed, running out whilst queueing is not likely in a 92 car queue.
"but 92 cars isn't really that many. Is it?"
Only if your time is worth nothing and you have absolutely nothing better to do with it.
Quite probably the case for most people that spend excessive time commuting each day.
They calculate the lower mortgages vs. the financial costs of commuting (gas, car wear & tear), but allocate zero for the extra time wasted in the longer commutes. So they value their own time at zero.
Alan
When I ask most people this question, or something similar, they usually reply that they don't mind the commute because it gives them some down time to not have to focus on anything. I myself usually let my brain wander in this way while I'm listening to my ipod in my walk to work, 30 mins. each way, so I can understand where they're coming from.
I'm also in midtown atlanta and to tell you the truth, other than a few weekends ago when I drove up to the Smokies I haven't noticed any shortage, but that's because I haven't driven my car in that time. I was surprised to see such a long line for that gas station in the video. I am in walking distance to work and just about every type of store you might need except for a department store (e.g., I hit the grocery store on the way home some days). There's one of those I could walk to if pressed or I could take the Marta out to one of the malls in the suburbs that it stops near.
Times like this I don't mind making the decision I did to live in town, but it's definitely a trade off because of the higher crime rate and other annoyances of living in the city.
Alan, I don't totally buy that. As you know quite a few people moved to the North Shore because they value the future of their children's education and cannot afford private schools in New Orleans. They also believe that living on the North Shore is safer, has lower taxes, cheaper cost of living, and less corruption. The trade off is a longer commute, higher gasoline cost, and a faster depreciating car. Many people place a high value on the education of their children as well as their personal safety and general living conditions. You of all people should know that. There is a tendency of The Drum posters to demean the average Joe or Jane as clueless; as someone who spend nearly his entire life as a small business man I'll tell you it isn't necessarily so and I don't think you really believe that the time they are sacrificing has a value of zero.
The State of Louisiana built the world's longest bridge just to support Exurban Sprawl on the North Shore (24 miles of bridge plus miles on either end) and to take away the tax base from New Orleans (schools deteriorated after this State of Louisiana "investment").
Earlier, I saw a Jefferson Parish promotional video from early or mid-1950s. Not ONE black person on camera in Jeff Parish and they cheerfully noted that "You can use your VA loan on a new home in Jefferson Parish but not to buy an old home in New Orleans".
You confuse "cause" with "effect".
Post-Katrina, New Orleans schools are definitely improving. I am seven blocks away from what will likely become the best public school in the USA. The Republic of France helps provide native French speaking teachers for all classes but English and Geography (students should learn that Deutschland is called Germany and not Allemagne) and the school is run as a "better" French public school.
Best Hopes for 1950 to 1970 in reverse,
Alan
"New Orleans schools are definitely improving." Yes they are, maybe in 12 years they may catch up with the schools on the North Shore. How many kids in public schools in New Orleans? How many kids are in what may be the best school in the USA? Alan, New Orleans schools are still the worst schools in the state and for a lot of parents that alone is still a good reason to get the Hell out and commute. The migration out of Baton Rouge to Zachary is for the same reason. Baton Rouge schools suck, too and nobody built a bridge to lure them away.
It may, more often than not, be cheaper to live in a city, but if that city was New Orleans, for many years it wasn't safer than commuting. For years New Orleans was right up there with the highest murders per unit of population. I have a hunch if you add the accident rates + murder rate for New Orleans and compare those sames rates with Mandeville, Covington, and the Bridge area commuting wasn't all that scary.
Finally, I understand that it makes sense if the vast majority of people lived in cities, from the peak oil perspective, it would be better. However, for large numbers of people the amount spent on gasoline is not critical and simple life style adjustments and making sure the next car is more fuel efficient will keep many in the burbs for years to come.
I would highly recommend Robert Self's "American Babylon" which describes in detail how this same process took place in the Bay Area. Suburban bliss and urban decay became self-fulfilling prophecies as a result of a coordinated program by developers, governemnt at all levels,and the real estate industry to deprive the cities of resources and transfer them to the exurbs. probably the best social science book I have ever read,
Matt
you really believe that the time they are sacrificing has a value of zero
I use the words of long distance commuters. Not once have I heard an allusion to the value of their time spent commuting. Any negative on driving an hour+/day is put in terms of quality of life terms (if at all), not in economic terms.
They also rarely mention safety and the increased death and disability rate that goes with increased driving. 40,000 dead plus hundreds of thousands of life altering injuries each and every year is just ignored as well.
In the real world, Exurbs and Suburbs are more dangerous.
Alan
When I was a kid growing up my father drove 20,000 miles per year. He supervised a succession of construction projects that were always 40-50-60 miles in some direction or other. Rather than move us around every couple of years he sacrificed for us by driving long hours.
There are lots of reasons why people drive long distances. They obviously do not think all that driving has no value or else they wouldn't do it.
One last comment. Your "less corruption" remark is dated. Jeff Parish is certainly more corrupt than Orleans today, and St. Tammany (North Shore) is sliding.
This Saturday we are voting on a Charter Amendment in Orleans Parish that devotes 0.7% of General Revenues to the Office of Inspector General, removing that budget leverage over a diligent Inspector General. New Orleans will be the first major city to take this step.
The City has recently hired a bull dog for Inspector General with a multi-million dollar budget.
Best Hopes for Less Corruption (at least in Orleans),
Alan
I agree with puhkawn that people view longer commutes as a tradeoff for perceived benefits. Europeans are often seen as more virtuous because they live in smaller homes with less sprawl, but the fact is when they move to the USA they fit right in by buying huge cars to drive long distances to their huge homes with huge lawns.
Regarding better living conditions and personal safety -- I think most of us are aware of the stats showing people with long commutes have a equivalent or even higher fatality rate than those living in the inner city.
Furthermore, there's an psychological effect where the contentment that comes from living in a large home wears off fairly quickly, so that the relative happiness of the large home dweller and small home dweller is about the same if all other things are constant. Since things aren't constant -- the exurban dweller still has the long commute -- the long commuter has traded off his time for essentially nothing of value. We trade our long commute time for nothing of value, so our time is worth zero.
I'm not familiar with stats that show that people with long commutes die more often than those who live in inner cities. I think for some inner cities that is unlikely to be the case.
But the commuter is often trying to protect other people (wife and kids) and to allow them to go out at night, not hear gun shots, attend a decent school, not live in high fear of rape, not come home to a burgled dwelling. There are lots of reasons why people do long commutes. They aren't just being lovers of cars and lovers of fossil fuels consumption.
People who face different trade-offs and different risk equations like to look down on the exurban commuters. But when I hear them do it I just think "snob".
I agree.
I used to work in NYC. The coworker who was partnered with me lived in a pretty bad neighborhood. When I went to his apartment to pick him up, people would be selling drugs in broad daylight, throwing the bags right over the street.
He eventually moved to the suburbs in New Jersey. He was really shocked at how much driving was required. In the city, there were stores on every block, so you didn't have to drive. The kids walked to school or took public transportation, and there were dance studios, music classes, etc., on every block, so they could go to after school activities without even crossing the street. In the 'burbs, he or his wife had to drive the kids everywhere they went. They really never expected that.
However, they never considered moving back. At least no one put bullets in their bedroom wall in the suburbs. (Yes, that really happened to them in the city. Someone in the next apartment got angry about something or another, and fired his gun at the wall behind their bed. While they were sleeping in it. I think that's when he decided they had to move.)
Driving everywhere is perceived as riskless, an annoyance at worst. Despite the 40,000 annual deaths and several times that many "life altering injuries". Despite the increased obesity and reduced routine cardiovascular exercise, driving in Suburbia is seen as "safer".
I very much doubt that perception.
Alan
I think what you're missing is control. Or at least the illusion of it.
I think that's a big reason why so many people are nervous about flying, even though it's statistically safer than driving. In the car, they're in control. In a plane, they aren't (unless they're the pilot).
They may be fooling themselves. (90% of people think they're better than average drivers.) But you can do a lot to increase your safety on the road. If you make an effort, you can be slender and fit, even if you live in the suburbs. But things like bullets going through your bedroom while you're asleep - it seems totally outside your control, and that's the kind of thing that freaks people out.
I agree.
It has been two years since a scheduled US domestic jet flight had a fatal accident (Comair in Lexington KY August 2006). A REMARKABLE feat !
An average flight is 100s (1000s ?) of times safer than driving. Statistically, more people die driving to the airport than they do flying today (although one serious runway collision would change that).
Control, or the illusion of control, matters more than the statistics.
Alan
If you make an effort, you can be slender and fit
Bicycling to work increases lifespan by 12.4 years, absent accidents. With accidents, the increased lifespan drops to 10.6 years (my link is now dead).
Accidents can be decreased by increasing the # of those cycling. Double the # of cyclists on the road and reduce the accident rate by 1/3rd.
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/09/for-bikers-ther.html
http://www.science.unsw.edu.au/news/a-virtuous-cycle-safety-in-numbers-f...
By inference, quadruple the # of cyclists, cut the accident rate by half and the lifespan of bicycle commuters increases by 11.5 years. A VERY considerable benefit.
Best Hopes for walking and Bicycling,
Alan
I'm willing to be convinced that it is safer to live in NO than to commute to it. But I'm not willing to accept someone's gut guess.
Look, you have to take that 40k deaths in vehicles and separate various reasons people drive, their age, sex, type of car, time of day, whether they drink or use drugs, and other factors.
You also have to consider that people do not all like to live in cities for lots of reasons. You want them to have your values. They don't. Get over it.
Likewise, the primary risk factor for violence in New Orleans is whether you sell illegal drugs. Secondary factors are whether you buy illegal drugs, or live with someone that sells drugs. Tertiary factor (and hardest to avoid) is being on the periphery of those that use drugs.
A few murders each year by jealous spouses (reduce risk by not cheating), or the mentally ill, etc.
Quite frankly, I fear drunk Texans driving more than "street violence".
As for "adopting my values" we do not have the energy to continue to support the non-negotiable "American Way of Life".
And the Suburbanites stubborn clinging to it will destroy the economy and the environment for all of us. I advocate zero governmental forces to preserve Suburbia. We should reverse the gov't policies that subsidized Suburbia and destroyed cities and enact new policies that subsidize cities and destroy suburbs (turn about is fair play).
Alan
Chronic disease is completely caused by diet, although of course exercise is important too. But a person can be a very lazy low-fat vegan starch eater and will have much greater health for much longer than a fitness nut who eats animal products.
http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/2008/07/you-are-biological-herbivore.html
Consider that three weeks ago, seeing three cars in line would cause someone to drive to another station, I'd say that 92 is plenty.
That's how it is here - more than three cars? Keep driving. Not worth the time.
Not a single Prius in that lineup... but I did see two hummers. I wonder how much fuel was consumed by all those idling gas hogs?
One of the CNN anchors expressed a similar sentiment. I guess he's been having trouble finding gas to get to work. They had a reporter at a gas station in Atlanta, and when the anchor saw a Hummer behind her, he started complaining. "Get that out of there! They shouldn't be allowed."
I bet the person in the white Hummer is re-evaluating their life choices! Especially if that station is only allowing a few gallons/customer.
There are two hummers actually. One at 1:28 (the white one,) and another at 1:37 (black.)
What is sad though, compared to a lot of the other cars, they don't actually look that big...
I watched this video. (Thank you for the link.)
I haven't been back to the States for a visit for almost 4 years and seeing this video I really thought "Wow! Those are huge cars! Are people really cutting down on gas?" Here near Tokyo most cars are tiny now. Wow, just wow the way Americans use gasoline. I really had forgotten what it was like.
Gas stations are also much smaller here. Gas prices are much higher too! (about 160yen/liter ($6/gallon).
I liked those lines in the song that went with the video: "breakdown", "I give up" etc. Very dark ironical humor there. I'm sure very needed at this point!!
It can also get violent too. Some guy yesterday was complaining that he wanted to go in the gas station buy cigarettes; however when trying to push trough the line, some other man blocked him and started shouting. "I think he was about to take out his gun. I bet half of them carry one in the back of their trucks", that's what he said.