![]() | Is the 2000 Watt Society Sustainable in Switzerland? | The Oil Drum: Europe | Review Response: Depletion and the Future Availability of Energy Sources | ![]() |
125 comments on Post-peak mechanized agriculture: the RAMSES project
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
125 comments on Post-peak mechanized agriculture: the RAMSES project
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Blogroll
- ASPO The official site of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
- Energy Bulletin Clearing house for news regarding the peak in global energy supply.
- PowerSwitch Dedicated to raising awareness & discussion of the impending & permanent decline of cheap oil & gas supply.
- ODAC Oil Depletion Analysis Centre working to raise awareness and promote better understanding of the world's oil-depletion problem.
- Global Public Media Public service broadcasting for a post carbon world.
- Post Carbon Institute Learning to live in a low energy world.
- PeakOil.com US site and forum to educate and promote awareness of global hydrocarbon depletion.
- FEASTA The Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability
- Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) This website describes an effective and fair response both to climate change and oil/gas depletion
- Aleklett's Energy Mix Global Energy Systems, Peak Oil, etc
- www.SamassaVeneessä.info Finnish peak oil site
Other Blogs
User login
Personnel
Editors
Contributors
Peak Oil Primers
Archives
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- March 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- March 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- March 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
Vital Trivia
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.




GAIA Host Collective
Maybe they miss out of your prediction of the future, but I think we may well find ourselves going NOT to the extremes, but back towards the boring middle. These machines are in a managable human scale, not too far beyond the team of Horses or Oxen that defined Ag a century or more ago, and apparently of a size that is managable for upkeep, maintenance and modifications. Many castings and machine-finishing could be handled on a local level.
Beyond that, they are technically/electronically very simple, and can be built or retrofitted from VERY robust base-vehicles.
Here is a great testimonial quote from a farmer that converted an old Allis-Chalmers 'G' from the 40's to Electric Power.
http://www.flyingbeet.com/electricg/
I like the gantry idea myself, and have toyed with thoughts of very light rail running between fields as well, where rolling stock would cover a span between sets of track to fly equipment over the fields (Which one would orient as long straightaways, obviously..) but I haven't worried myself with any feasibility studies on them.. just chewin' cud.
Agreed, jokuhl:
Much of this discussion seems to ignore timescales. Surely we can agree on the extremes: barring global war or pandemic, there will be diesel to run tractors for the next few decades. Equally true is the fact that ultimately (a century?) it will be too expensive and inconvenient to produce and distribute all of that fuel to far-flung, large-scale farms.
Sorry, but those urban gardens will never "feed" us, meaning produce most of our calories. Sure, they'll give us fresh vegetables, but unless you have big nut trees in your yard, you and your spouse won't be growing the 1.5 million calories that you two need each year to stay strong.
What I don't get is the continued attraction to high-tech fixes, especially in this community that recognizes and often preaches the need for resilience and self-reliance. Five or ten years is a mighty short horizon for replacing all those heavy, toxic batteries, decade after decade. We could back off from the "90-10 rule" and still get most of the performance from a lot less sophisticated system:
http://www.agsem.com/AveryUndermountSteamTractor-1024.jpg
External combustion engines can run on locally produced waste biomass, and be simple enough to maintain without a EE and a lot of replacement PCB's.
Steam tractors bridged the gap between draught animals and diesel machinery once before - maybe it will happen again.
Steam works, but stirlings work better. Lots more power/fuel rate. And they work just fine on raw biomass. Just stuff it into the burner, or if you like, pelletize it. Stirlings can be made about as powerful/volume as diesels, and can be made to just make electricity, not turn a shaft, which makes them cheaper and very long lived.
References? Lots. Look up automotive stirling programs of 30 years ago. Also look up present space isotope power programs.
Electric motors are great. And as to batteries, it always seems so obvious to me that you make the battery pack separate so it can be replaced instantly (almost) when depleted. Especially easy to do in farm equipment, where a big box sitting out in an easily grabbed place won't cause the owner to faint from aesthetic shock.
Now I am gonna sit back and await the usual counter-groans based on the "not been done and therefor never can be done" argument. Sigh.
Stirling engines work great for silent non nuclear submarines where they turn generators by burning liquid oxygen and diesel. And two Swedish companies have recently started small scale series production to export for the solar power market. I see no problem with using such engines for wehicels if you allow them to be a little bulky and it has been done. There are also initiatives to use them for miniture combined heat and power plants. There are no technial hurdels left as far as I know but the cost for the machined parts, it needs too manny high spec parts to be dirt cheap. But if people pay more it would probabky be fairly easy to retool car engine part factories and car engine factories for making them by the tens or hundreds of thosands per year.
Not a "counter-groan" but just asking 'cause I don't know:
It seems to me that in a tractor high torque at low rpm is a good thing.
I know electric is great for this, but it seems the costs and complexity (of the generation and storage, not the vehicle itself) are a killer.
How does Sterling compare to traditional piston steam in this respect?
Good comments. Thanks. What I was thinking of was a biomass fired stirling being an on-board battery charger. The electric motor gives all the torque. So, we still have sort of a solar powered electric tractor, except by a different route- solar to biomass to stirling to battery to motor, rather than same except solar to PV, etc.
Of course, you could leave the biomass-stirling- generator on the ground, charging that quick-change battery going into the tractor.
Electric motors are so good!
BTW. We can make stirlings with no higher demands on machine tolerances than IC engine. Only thing somewhat special is the hot end- has to be at least stainless steel. Cast iron or other dirt cheap stuff won't do. Behind that hot end, rest of it is just another piece of iron, nothing fancy. The Swedish stirlings are great, but have the advantage that cost-no-object, given their use. We can make things far less fancy for tractor-biomass, where nobody's life depends on it (we hope).