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185 comments on DrumBeat: October 5, 2008

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ccpo on October 5, 2008 - 7:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I think it's more a case of having watched the King Henry Paulson Bailout, Socialism and Welfare for Bankers and Financiers Act of 2008 get passed and realizing the Perfect Storm has arrived, with the first hurricane force winds coming ashore and wondering, "WTH is this guy thinking? Where's the money supposed to come from?"

And maybe a little light rail advocacy fatigue...

Still, I'd not encourage Alan to stop. Were a solution possible (It's not), he'd have the right idea.

Cheers

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Leanan on October 5, 2008 - 7:55pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I love the fact that the actual name is TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program). Very appropriate, since it's designed to cover up the problem, rather than fix it.

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vtfarmer on October 6, 2008 - 7:29am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Apparently they did change the name: the original proposal was to call it the Congressional Relief for Assets Program.

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AlanfromBigEasy on October 6, 2008 - 8:19am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Were a solution possible (It's not),

Silver bullet vs. silver BB.

In the real world, it is not "solution/no solution", it is a matter of degree.

We are decades too late for nearly complete mitigation. The issue is what do we do now, since we cannot reverse history.

Public works are a standard gov't response to recessions/depressions. Let us focus then on what will help towards the future.

In a wide variety of scenarios (backed by historical examples) rail and electrified rail will make things "better than they would have otherwise have been".

It is not an issue of BAU, it is a matter of what workable tools we will have to work with to create a new social and economic order.

The more, the sooner, the better.

Best Hopes,

Alan

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ccpo on October 6, 2008 - 9:07am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Don't worry, like I said, you've the right idea for keeping the world as it is, it's just a decade or two too late. The one big issue I have with your plan is that it really does encourage BAU of some form. IMHO, BAU in any form leads back to where we are now eventually. That's not a solution, it's slow suicide.

We have to think not just outside the box, but look for an entirely different box altogether. I think that means small communities connected electronically, autonomous/free regions no larger than current states, etc., etc., etc.

But are present locations the right locations for such a socio-political organizational structure? Many likely are not. Your rail could be the tie that binds, but if it comes first, it will bind us to the present. There's plenty of petroleum for a world not based on it to use judiciously for building something like the rail system you envision later.

Anyway...all this off the top 'o me head. In a hurry to get to the baby and get him in the bath, so... with a grain of salt.

Cheers

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AlanfromBigEasy on October 6, 2008 - 1:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Is the perfect the enemy of the good ?

The tunnels and embankments built by Chinese labor for the first Trans-Continental railroad are still in use, but the USA of today is little like the USA of the 1870s.

I took an 1897 subway to ASPO-Boston every day. In 1897, oil was used for lubrication and lighting, but Edison had something that might work better for lighting. Explaining the usefulness of the subway to Peak Oil mitigation would not have made much sense to the builders (how will subways save on lighting ? or lubrication ?)

Yes, some percentage of the new rail infrastructure will be used for just a few decades, but some (most IMHO) will be long lived. That is more than can be said for much of the infrastructure being built today.

Best Hopes for Long Lived infrastructure,

Alan

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ccpo on October 7, 2008 - 12:24pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I wasn't talking about longevity, Alan, but locations.

Cheers

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185 comments on DrumBeat: October 5, 2008

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