185 comments on DrumBeat: October 5, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
185 comments on DrumBeat: October 5, 2008
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- Thanksgiving Open Campfire Thread
- How Relocalization Worked
- How to Set Up and Run a Bicycle Repair Company
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“We have only two modes—complacency and panic.”
—James R. Schlesinger, the first energy secretary, in 1977, on the country's approach to energy
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Were a solution possible (It's not),
Silver bullet vs. silver BB.
In the real world, it is not "solution/no solution", it is a matter of degree.
We are decades too late for nearly complete mitigation. The issue is what do we do now, since we cannot reverse history.
Public works are a standard gov't response to recessions/depressions. Let us focus then on what will help towards the future.
In a wide variety of scenarios (backed by historical examples) rail and electrified rail will make things "better than they would have otherwise have been".
It is not an issue of BAU, it is a matter of what workable tools we will have to work with to create a new social and economic order.
The more, the sooner, the better.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Don't worry, like I said, you've the right idea for keeping the world as it is, it's just a decade or two too late. The one big issue I have with your plan is that it really does encourage BAU of some form. IMHO, BAU in any form leads back to where we are now eventually. That's not a solution, it's slow suicide.
We have to think not just outside the box, but look for an entirely different box altogether. I think that means small communities connected electronically, autonomous/free regions no larger than current states, etc., etc., etc.
But are present locations the right locations for such a socio-political organizational structure? Many likely are not. Your rail could be the tie that binds, but if it comes first, it will bind us to the present. There's plenty of petroleum for a world not based on it to use judiciously for building something like the rail system you envision later.
Anyway...all this off the top 'o me head. In a hurry to get to the baby and get him in the bath, so... with a grain of salt.
Cheers
Is the perfect the enemy of the good ?
The tunnels and embankments built by Chinese labor for the first Trans-Continental railroad are still in use, but the USA of today is little like the USA of the 1870s.
I took an 1897 subway to ASPO-Boston every day. In 1897, oil was used for lubrication and lighting, but Edison had something that might work better for lighting. Explaining the usefulness of the subway to Peak Oil mitigation would not have made much sense to the builders (how will subways save on lighting ? or lubrication ?)
Yes, some percentage of the new rail infrastructure will be used for just a few decades, but some (most IMHO) will be long lived. That is more than can be said for much of the infrastructure being built today.
Best Hopes for Long Lived infrastructure,
Alan
I wasn't talking about longevity, Alan, but locations.
Cheers