A nice bit of history Nate. And couldn’t be brought up at a more appropriate time IMO. Many would say the US has not had a serious energy plan. Unfortunately, I would argue we have had a very deliberate plan which has never varied from its goals or application. All efforts have been made to maximize the use of FF to drive the economy forward. And the time frame has always been short term. And not surprisingly, in a time frame parallel to the election cycles.

I'll throw out the most obvious example to start the discussion: gasoline prices. Dramatic price reduction in just the last few weeks. Within a month we'll have a new President. What would be more appropriate to begin to mend the lost opportunities over the last 30 years but for him to announce his first act after being sworn in will be to institute a long term schedule increasing motor fuel taxes? What better time to do so as many Americans prepare to return to their usual consumption patterns. Perhaps we should start preparing a big online party to celebrate that coming day. Nate...you got enough party hats to go around?

Ummm... good luck with that... have you been around long enough, or read enough history, to recall what happened to Bill Clinton? He tried a little itty bitty 7¢ motor fuel tax, and (along with other things) it became a huge gotcha issue that helped propel Newt Gingrich & Co. into office and reshape the political landscape.

If Social Security is the third rail of politics, gasoline is the other third rail. And you're going to need a hell of a lot more than 7¢ to change anything materially. Will the new president really desire to electrocute himself?

Just sayin'

Hell Paul....I go all the way back to Carter when he was ridiculed for making the same suggestion. I can even go back to a time when one particular oil cartel limited production in order to keep prices up. Their goal wasn't to inspire conservation but to just maximize the value of oil. But, it did put pressure on conservation anyway. They effective set the amount (the "allowable") of oil any company could produce. If a company had a well capable of producing 1000 bopd and the allowable was set that month at 30% they could average no more than 300 bopd for that month. If they produced more they would be subject to both civil and criminal charges. This cartel effective controlled the price of oil well into the 1960's.

BTW, the cartel was the Texas Rail Road Commission. They're the state regulator of oil/NG production. And the "allowable" system is still in place and is still the law. Since the development of petropower in the Middle East the allowable in Texas has been set every month at 100%. The TRRC could, in theory, reduce the allowable any time they choose. We’ll hold our breath for that move also.

More, we have had a policy of assuring that the largest oil producer feels comfortable, with lots of fighter airplanes and such. They then cooperate to make it difficult for a single other actor to produce the same effects as what we once faced. We have looked to geopolitical manipulation to deal with oil. We have not done as much as we should to deal with a geological rather than political energy crisis. But, we are seeing pretty astounding fruits of the research efforts started in the seventies. Fusion is not ready but wind and solar are really taking off. Are they in time? In some ways the answer has to be yes because these are the things that can scale. In some ways the answer has to be no because we are going to see rationing in response to fossil fuel supply constrains that a more dilligently followed energy program would have avoided.

With a bit of leadership right now, we can respond to the falling oil price to keep pushing it down, not to party, but to ease the cost of our transition off of oil. We need to reduce consumption. We can do it the cheap way or the expensive way but it is going to happen. http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2008/06/oil-is-too-expensive.html

Chris

Fusion is not ready but wind and solar are really taking off. Are they in time? In some ways the answer has to be yes because these are the things that can scale. In some ways the answer has to be no because we are going to see rationing in response to fossil fuel supply constrains that a more dilligently followed energy program would have avoided.

Are they in time? This is an interesting question. Before we answer we need to ask are they in time for what?

I think we should strive to understand what the goal should be. There is a pervasive expectation that any new energy source should replace FF at their current level of usage. If we fail to to that, the expectation is we will revert into some third world economy or worse.

But on the other hand there is an equally pervasive frustration at the inability to get the normal North American to reduce his energy usage. There is a limit to growth and one one them is the limitations on renewable cheap energy sources.

These two pervasive ideas appears to be inconsistent. How can you maintain the current energy usage level, get the North American to conserve and build a sustainable economy all at the same time?

I am tempted to think that the goal should be to implement sustainable energy sources that meet what society needs, not what society wants. This means we figure how much energy is required after wasteful activities are optimized away and set this as the target. Then once we descend the terminal decline, society has to adapt to whatever energy remains available. If the production is sufficient we end up with an industrial economy that has been optimized to a sustainable energy usage level.

This approach would help with a lot of hairy issues:

- How to get the normal North-American to conserve.
- How to scale down the peak oil mitigation problem to a more achievable target
- How to build a society with sustainable energy usage
- How to make sure the post-peak world avoids descending into the MadMax hell

I also think it is so hard to implement sustainable energy sources at the current FF scale, a reduced level is going to be what will be achieved anyway. The question is whether there will be enough new energy production to sustain an industrial economy.

Very well stated that, for whatever reason, it seems that the average North-American doesn't want to conserve. My understanding is that in the late 70s (I was just a wee lad back then) there was an enormous conservation effort and that it was successful. So, it can be done. We just need to get back to that mindset.

I think that a large part of the problem is that the average person has no idea how electricity is made - that for most electrical generation (coal, natural gas, oil, and nuclear) fuel is used to boil water and the resulting steam spins the turbine of a generator. If they knew this, I think that they would be more likely to conserve (electricty at least), because they can imagine, picturing in their minds, the fuel being used/burned and the polution being created to boil water.

If you don't believe me, try this. Go around your office, your group on non-T.O.D friends, your church functions, asking folks, "How is electricity made?" You'll be shocked by how many people can't answer it. Another fun question is, "Can electricty be created or destroyed?" A lot of folks answer "No," confusing the basic concepts of electricty and energy.

Man, we need a serious eductional-upgrade of the average person, IMHO, before conservation will be done out of principle. Of course, prices of electricty will eventually get high enough that there will be conservation anyway.

I was speaking in the context of how people were thinking at the time. They were aware that fossil fuels are finite and started research into alternatives. The research was supported at a level that would provide the alternative at the time it would be needed. Fusion was considered the main thing. It is just that we are running out a little sooner than planned at that time.

Chris

- How to get the normal North-American to conserve.

It appears that they respond well to lies and/or fear, so maybe that's worth a shot!

What better time to do so as many Americans prepare to return to their usual consumption patterns. Perhaps we should start preparing a big online party to celebrate that coming day. Nate...you got enough party hats to go around?

By coincidence we had our weekly company luncheon today and the general mood was cheerful and upbeat. People were all commenting that the worst was over! The number one thing that everyone seemed to be heaving a collective sigh of relief over, was the fact the price of oil and more importantly the price of gas was plummeting with no bottom in sight! Party on dudes...