Heres an analysis I sent to some friends last night. This chart is a few days old (I gave up my bloomberg 4 years ago and now have to rely on favors from friends):
Essentially, the world is undergoing a global margin call. Borrowed money in dollars and yen is being repatriated, causing huge rallies in those 2 currencies. At the same time, everything that was 'invested in' with that money is gravitating towards neutral (no longs, no shorts). Most people buy stocks and commodities, and given Peak Oil on the horizon, many have bought energy stocks. These things have gone down the most. The above chart shows the correlation between Euro/Yen cross, the Hedge Fund Aggregate Index, and the SP500 - as I said it is 4 days old. ($/Euro traded below 1.25 earlier this am and Yen hit 110)
The Baltic Dry Shipping index, an indicator of the health of global shipping trade, is down again today, and down over 90% from it's May levels. Below is a brief analysis of the correlations of the TED spread (measure of health of credit market), the Baltic Dry Shipping Index and crude oil (WTI)
I used Bloomberg data for the past 12 months. Over that time, the TED spread had a -.44 correlation (R^2) with crude oil. The Baltic Index had a .31 positive correlation with crude prices. (the TED spread had a -.59 correlation with Baltic Index). Nothing overwhelming. I hypothesize this would also have been the case over longer periods.
However, if I just use prices since July, the TED spread had a -.88 correlation with oil and the Baltic had a .96 !!! correlation with crude oil (Baltic and TED = -.92) I assume the correlation with $/Euro and Euro/Yen would have even been closer to 1 for 1 with financial selloffs. The sheer magnitude of financial capital in relation to real capital was pointed out a long 6 weeks ago in Energy, Hurricanes and Hedge Funds
Conclusions:
1)We are having a 6 sigma global margin call. Assets are uncorrelated until they become correlated. This is a perfect example of how our financial and physical systems are all linked and people don't even realize it. Failure of networked systems indeed.
We all know this is due to a global deleveraging of the 2 trillion+ hedge fund capital and other bank selling. It is pretty clear now that repatriated Euro/Yen and Dollar/Euro funding crosses are the main impetus for liquidations: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/324292...
That on top of new news this am that wall street banks are again tightening margin requirements. It's a small door for a whole lot of elephants.
2)The above is a perfect example of why economics is fatally flawed. Business schools, nobel prize winning economists, etc. have done all their 'analysis' on the longer term historical correlations of interest rates, resources, capital markets etc. (which existed in an environment of perception of perpetual growth, and when notional financial credit/money did not dwarf natural capital). Poof - out of nowhere there are now strong correlations. Just like out of nowhere you see Baltic Shipping Index become 1 for 1 correlated with oil, I expect one day you will see the same thing with ALL financial assets (including treasuries). The Capital Asset Pricing Model will be rewritten (I'm attempting to do just that if I have time)- as all conventional 'assets', (including T-bills, eventually) comprise one abstract asset class, "financial", which is a marker for real assets: Natural Capital (water, energy, land), Built Capital (solar panels, houses, trucks), Social Capital (relationships), and Human Capital (knowledge, skills, etc.).
Economic growth has occured as humans combined a vast energy surplus with creativity, other resources (technology) and iterations (time). There is NO natural law that says stocks will average 10% a year over the long haul. This is a fantasy sold to us by salespeople on Wall St. (good people for the most part, they are just following what they learned in school). The business schools right now represent one of the largest wastes of resources and brain power in our country - other than the statistics and a few neat economic truisms (e.g. comparative advantage), everything they are teaching is based on false premises. Other than IPOs and new stock offerings, commodities speculation, hedge funds, derivatives, and fractional reserve banking by private banks is nothing but abstract wealth without foundation.
I hypothesize (can't prove because I don't have data), that net energy for the global economic system peaked in 1999-2000. (though it is clear that despite new nominal highs, US Coal in terms of BTU peaked in 1998, and this doesn't include the energy cost of extraction)
As direct energy surplus declines, we have to replace it somehow - first from the poor countries and poor people (via rising GINI coefficient) and from the environment. This means approving low income housing loans, deregulating financial markets so that firms can 'borrow' more 'abstract energy surplus' (money), and relaxing of rules and oversight that in times of cheap energy were enacted for a reason. The fiat system is now bankrupt and is playing hot potato. If the potato gets too hot it will lead to war. Archduke Dick Fuld Ferdinand? I kid you not - it is that serious. I hope people making decisions are smart enough to know that we really are still rich (as a planet), but a master plan of spinning our wheels in order to increase abstract digits in the bank (with an obstensible objective of routinely trading them in for short term gratification (which quickly becomes garbage) is neither sustainable, nor in the end, enjoyable. But I expect they will try and solve this using the same tactics that were successful in the past - some sort of Keynesian spending scheme with even lower interest rates, as if that would help. Perhaps they should look at capital flows and if the Central Banks want to intervene, it might help to short the dollar and yen and provide a floor until these hedge fund liquidations are over.
There is still time, but some very uncomfortable choices are going to have to be made. Change the demand system and institutions to be consistent with our evolutionary drivers. Work towards procuring and using energy wisely on both supply and demand side. Build local infrastructure for basic needs. Reslience over efficiency. Redundancy over cheapness.
Nate:Very detailed and thoughtful reply. The problem I see is that the temperatures I am reading in our economic reactor core are going supercritical. The decision makers and deciders: shrub,paulson, greenjeans and the rest of the congressional keystone cops are dashing around in thoughtless Brownian movement chaos throwing garbage at the wall hoping something will stick. We are living through the death throes of a fatally optimized highly coupled financial system which is undergoing unstable oscillation. None of your suggestions can be implemented in a panic and collapse scenario. Building redundancy into a previously optimized industrial economy is probably not possible without a total or near total collapse IMO. I will give you a Wyoming metaphor: Once you climb on the bull, there is nothing you can do to alter the outcome.
Which is why it is so often provided either by a public authority or by a regulatory requirement on all firms that wish to continue participating in some market segment.
I will give you a Wyoming metaphor: Once you climb on the bull, there is nothing you can do to alter the outcome.
Funny ... good metaphor. OUCH!
Actually, there are things that must be done. The world will spin and things will need attending to for those not on the bull.
-- A safety net needs to be jury- rigged into place. This crisis is serious; people in America will freeze and starve if there isn't some sort of basic care plan put into place. Having the National Guard drive around in circles will not cut it. Our government is failing to perform its duty and officials deserve to be prosecuted for dereliction and gross negligence. The worst may not happen, but it appears that it may. If it doesn't and we have a chance to avoid disaster, preparation for disaster is a good drill. If the worst happens and the economy grinds to a halt it is imperative to be prepared.
-- A plan must be developed for a command economy. This is the form of economy that will take the place of our current mess after it's done and a fork is stuck in it. The presumption is the crisis will develope quickly to the point of total collapse because of the amount of debt and unfunded liabilities overhanging the productive part of the economy. In this case the transition to the coammand economy would take place right away.
If the collapse is instead a slow decline, as in the 1930's, the government can attempt the run of ad- hoc remedies that were part of the New Deal or it can cut to the chase and embrace what will work; the command economy.
Paulson, Rubin, Summers, Bernanke et al have about as much chance of setting up a command economy as they do riding saddle bronc. There are records from the Roosevelt administration as well as a few old- timers still alive who could instruct bureaucrats how to set one up and make it function properly. Or, the government can send so people over to observe the Chinese, who have a tightly managed almost- not- quite- command economy.
The goal of the command economy would be three- fold. One would be to insure that everyone has renumerative work and sustain themselves over the transition period. The work would certainly not be war- related as it was in the 1930's and 1940's; there are a lot of infrastructure issues that need fixing, plus the business of survival will require a lot more capital and labor than is visible in our current form of widely distributed production. Second, would be to prepare the transition to the 'post- command' economy, which will be a lot different than what we have now ... and will probably be unfamiliar to anyone except for a few academic economists. The third aim would be to simplify the production cycle and get people in America used to making do with less . This will also be the most effective way to boost energy production. Btu's not used in the moment ... will be available for use later.
An incidental outcome would be the central government would husband ... or grow ... relevance as the result of services provided ... rather than by the exertion of government 'authority'.
Right now, it has diminishing authority and no plan, except for the sort of plan made by bank robbers ...
Is it reasonable to expect that there will be enough remunerative work to employ everybody if real GDP declines year after year? I do not think that is possible. Personally, I advocate a negative income tax to deal with the Greater Depression to come. It would not surprise me if the unemployement rate rises to thirty percent or more over the next dozen years. This will be both cyclical and structural unemployment, and the structural component will be harder to deal with than the cyclical component.
I grow more convinced that it was and remains 1. the size of the global pool of savings, and 2. those who were hired to manage that global pool of savings, that brought us these horrors. Now, with the global money-flood underway, a new wave of capital is hitting the system--even if one believes that a great deal of the former pool either was or is being destroyed. Concentration of influence over the management of the global pool of savings is sort of analagous to previous times in history when political power was over-concentrated, and decisions affecting the whole were made by a few. (this is always the case but at times goes to even stronger extremes).
After the JPY and USD short-covering process peters out, I think we are going to be right back into the heart of the situation that persisted this decade which is that oil is more valuable than currencies, and there will be the multiplier effect of the global money flood starting to hit. This will be exacerbated by the period of time oil spends below 80.00.
As for the system, I conjecture that we are in control of the system and not the other way around, and the system that I identify as being synonymous with modernity is in fact the credit (belief) system which is really just a way of making economic relationships efficient. If we want to dismantle this efficiency and revert to a primitive, payment on demand system than we can do that. I can't imagine why anyone would welcome that or look forward to it. It would at bottom be an enormous waste of energy (time). Local currencies, gold, silver, demanding one's wages at the end of each day, scarce inventories in the food and fuel delivery systems would all be present, in such a reversion.
I am very pro-globalization and have been since I was a teenager and attended an international school and felt the liberation that comes from getting one foot out of my culture. However, I recognize the horrors that have now unfolded from the velocity of capital that is attendant to globalization, and now that the system is massive, it needs more control. In short, I fear that globalization will be rejected in whole, as an emotional reaction, and we will enjoy some benefits but on balance experience alot more darkness in return.
In a world with declining extractable resources, there is no way there can be very much long term debt. Repaying the debt with interest will take too many resources.
In fact, I don't think it is a coincidence that the current debt defaults came at a time in history when oil extraction has flattened. We now longer had the underly resources growing at the rate they needed, to keep up with the debt, plus interest. Admittedly, the poor judgment of many in the lending industry may have hastened the process, but it was just a matter of speeding up the inevitable.
When you equate credit with modernity, I presume you are only looking at very short term debt. Paying wages at the end of a two week period. Paying for goods after they arrive. I can imagine this continuing, but long term debt, and even monetary systems that depend on long term debt, have to be replaced by more appropriate systems to our new more-constricted resources.
Yearly average production has been flat for 2 years (2006, 2007).
Yearly average production has been down or flat (< 0.1% growth) for 12 of the last 27 years, including every other recession since 1980 (81-83, 91-93, 01-02).
So it's probably not coincidence, but one needs to be careful about assigning causality.
In particular, note that oil production has been increasing for most of 2008. World oil supply is up 1.4Mb/d YTD 2008 vs. 2007 average (also via IEA data). Even with OPEC's just-announced cuts, it's still virtually certain that oil production in 2008 will be a fair amount higher than in 2007; with production data available through Sept, production would need to drop to ~80Mb/d for the final three months of the year to avoid an increase.
Accordingly, these debt defaults have predominantly happened while oil production was increasing. That doesn't mean oil can't be a cause, of course, but it is something that theories need to take into account.
Gross production is almost meaningless now. We care about energy for it's ability to do work. 86 mbpd does not equate to 86 mbpd of last year. It was important while a barrel equaled a barrel. Look at the marginal cost structures now, and disparate items that make up 'oil'. NGPL and ethanol have 60% of BTUs as crude, yet are counted the same. Tar sands get counted the same, yet no subtraction is taken from the natural gas figures, etc. Very little cheap stuff left, and that is what powered the globalization and extreme specialization (import substitution policies).
I can't prove the specifics on net energy (though some should try to), so in that sense it is an unprovable hypothesis, and therefore not science. But connect your own dots - I've been trying to here for 3 years and 99% of people still don't get it. Show me 10-20mbpd of new capacity that costs $10-15 a barrel to replace the 1000:1 EROI of Ghawar and other old depleting fields and I will (happily) change my mind.
Don't forget the relentless increase in population. Outside of major disaters this force is not going to go away. I seriously doubt that the increase in production for 2008 kept pace with world demand from population alone much less if you include any of the secondary issues such as EROEI and Export land etc. I say they are secondary because the primary drivers of the economy are population and resources. Maybe not secondary in magnitude but thats a different issue. No matter what we do we cannot escape from the population issue it will remain.
US population growth is a bit over 1% a year we have to grow our GDP at at least 1% just to stay level. With the changing demographics and baby boomers retiring we probably have to grow and additional 1% at least to provide for the increased elderly population.
Esp given the US medical and insurance system. Medical expenses will become a increasing burden on the system.
Sure everyone can get poorer every year not a problem but that does not stop the pressure from population growth nor its pent up demand.
By any metric available the world is a decidedly poorer place in 2008 vs 2007. Trillions have been lost and the demand has still increased and the amount of available energy per capita has decreased using any sensible accounting for EROEI and energy density.
EIA Oil Supply Growth: 3.5% (July07 to July08) or 1.6% (2007 avg vs. 2008 YTD avg.) or 2.0% (Jan-Jul07 vs. Jan-Jul08).
Any of those are higher than the population growth rate, meaning that the increase in oil supply in the last year has more than kept up with population growth.
Pit I made a vow not to respond to you but in this case I must.
World population grows every year year end and year out. If in any given year the oil supply growth does not exceed the population growth you have a deficit to balance.
These people don't simply disappear in the years that oil production increases did not meet population growth you have to carry them forward.
Given that 2008 is not over yet lets wait till we see the end of the year we have every indication that production is now dropping rapidly.
I'm happy to just call these flat so lets assume population increased in 2006 and 2007 by 1.2% this means to reach the same amount of oil per capita we need at least a 2.4% increase in oil production vs 2005.
Including the year of the increase we would need to see 3.6%
I stand by my argument I'd be surprised given this post
Its fairly obvious that the year will not end with a 3.6% increase megaprojects for 2009 is not looking promising although or deficit was shrunk this year it was not eliminated.
However if your serious about this you need to do a bit more work and work population vs oil supply back at least say ten years to get a good grasp on the current status of population vs oil supply.
For example 2004 was 83,104.80
So you had a 1.5% grow and thus 0.3% "extra" oil this year.
2000-2001 it went down.
The simple observation that peak production last time was in 2005 and we only finally broke it in 2008 is sufficient to suspect that oil production as not kept up with population growth.
Feel free to to work the problem correctly and get back with me.
Or cherry pick numbers to make your point.
I would not worry too much about year-to-year rises and falls, differences of a percent or two can easily be made up by more efficiency or waste. We have to look at the general trend.
population, M
oil, Mbbl/day
oil, pc/yr
1950
2,518
10.42
1.51
1955
2,755
15.41
2.04
1960
2,981
21.03
2.57
1965
3,334
31.8
3.48
1970
3,692
48.06
4.75
1975
4,068
56.49
5.06
1980
4,434
63.86
5.25
1985
4,830
59.12
4.46
1990
5,263
66.78
4.63
1995
5,674
70.42
4.53
2000
6,070
76.92
4.62
2005
6,453
85.46
4.83
And the general trend is that the amount of oil available per person peaked around 1980. Of course these figures are total oil production, not net available - but nobody's been able to produce net oil figures for the world yet.
The other thing to bear in mind is that the places with the largest population growth have actually seen the least growth in oil consumption. The biggest growth in consumption over the 1950-2005 period has come from the low population growth First World countries.
Yeah this is better but you should also bring in GDP growth each year vs population vs oil.
The problem is of course this conflates efficiency claims esp if you start looking at individual countries.
For example in the US we claim that the US has become much more efficient at using oil since the 1970's but this does not include the export of a lot of basic manufacturing overseas. And worse if you start looking at per person GDP growth or oil usage in the countries where manufacturing was exports the demographics tends to hide the truth.
Per capita oil consumption goes up but given that a lot of this is fueled by manufacturing for exports its not near as large a real growth in general wealth in the exporting countries.
Although the per capita oil usage peaked in 1980 the process was set in motion back in the 1970's with the move to pure fiat curriencies coupled with the peak of US production. It just took a bit for US production to decline and oil imports to increase and fiat currency inflation to become noticeable.
These are some of the underlying reasons we are seeing trends out to 100 years start peaking at the same time. The wheel where set in motion a long time ago. And as you showed the path we have chosen was firmly established by 1980.
A particular reason to look at the last few years however is that a tremendous amount of debt has been created to induce growth. In general the worlds GDP has been inflated by a moved into the financial world. So the GDP itself has been heavily inflated by growth in areas that at the end of the day actually remove money from more productive pursuits.
Whats really interesting is that the world does not even really try to compute what I'd call sustainable wealth. And easy metric would be the amount of personal savings in the bottom half of the worlds wage scale adjusted for inflation.
Given that most of the population of these third world countries barely participate in the modern banking system how can Morgan-Stanley talk about how much they have saved ?
One thing I've not found is the actual spread of savings amongst the population in third world countries even though we have tons of information that the wealth is highly concentrated in the top 1%.
No way we can talk about general GDP, oil usage and net savings without dealing with concentration of wealth. In fact in general it looks like overall all thats happened is that the exporting countries have created more extremely rich individuals.
And last but not least what has allowed this charade to continue ?
Assuming since 1980 the worlds gotten poorer outside of the top 1% whats happened ?
Why did we pull this off ?
Turns out that fertilizer was probably the underlying reason for success.
As the world increased its work force by the billion these billions in general are focused on obtaining enough food. We have been highly successful in providing bread for the masses. Also another incredibly important factor thats overlooked in the time honored Roman tradition is the circus.
Not only did these super poor people get access to bread they where also submerged with American entertainment. Real increases in personal wealth amongst the poor was successfully replaced with dreams of personal wealth as seen on TV.
Often overlooked and ignored the combination of food and the modern remote circus ala TV and music and las the internet has resulted in people willingly playing by the rules expecting to get their SUV and McMansion any day. And although in many countries when people are interviewed they publicly decry the sex and violence they perceive through films in America we should probably assume that the reality is quite different and the flood of effectively porn into the third world has acted as a sedative to the masses encouraging them to dream of making it to the land flowing with sex.
The selling of real food and virtual sex to the world by the wealthy is probably and not unsurprisingly the real reason that the warped financial system has worked.
Nothing more then bread and circus's just like the Romans.
Of course as peoples lives really worsen in the sense that the food supply worsens I suspect they will reevaluate their warped view of the American Dream.
Yeah this is better but you should also bring in GDP growth each year vs population vs oil.
I could, but
(a) GDP is meaningless, and
(2) that would go beyond the scope of a comment on an article on a blog, with both comment and article disappearing into obscurity in a week or so.
The rest about savings and the like I consider not much of an issue. Money's just an abstraction, its twins purposes being to make trade easier and act as a store of value - two purposes which don't have to be in the same thing, but in this case are. But what is the purpose of trading and storing value? To give us better lives.
There are not a lot of measures of quality of life. The UN's HDI (Human Development Index) is made up of,
1/3 GDP per capita
1/3 longevity
1/3 education, which is 2/3 adult literacy and 1/3 tertiary enrolment
so even that measure brings in useless GDP, but the other 2/3 I think are a fair measure - if people in general live a long time and can read and write and have a few well-educated ones around them, then probably a lot of other things are going well for the country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution
[...]
Not only did these super poor people get access to bread they where also submerged with American entertainment. Real increases in personal wealth amongst the poor was successfully replaced with dreams of personal wealth as seen on TV.
Most of the "super poor people" who actually benefited from the Green Revolution have never seen a television, so can't get any dreams from it. Rather, what they saw was in their own communities, some well-off individuals in homes with running water and electricity, meat eaten every day, cars and radios and so on.
And most of the countries with very poor people in them have always had these well-off individuals as examples, but they just assumed things had to be that way. But as democracy has spread, one of the things people have done with their free speech is to demand better lives.
86 mbpd does not equate to 86 mbpd of last year. It was important while a barrel equaled a barrel.
Perhaps true, but even C+C alone is up well over 1Mb/d since last year. Can you honestly say that those extra 1.2Mb/d of C+C are "fake"?
The fact that oil production honestly and truly grew in the last year isn't a challenge to the notion of peak oil, but it is a challenge to lazy and alarmist descriptions of it that keep mindlessly repeating the same tired, old "plateau since 2005" line.
Yes, there was a plateau, and this year it was broken; new facts require a new argument.
I've been trying to here for 3 years and 99% of people still don't get it.
If that's the case, you might want to take a hard look at the quality of the argument you've been using. I mean that in all honesty - if you believe you have an important point to make and people don't believe you, it's almost always the case that either your argument is bad or your point is.
For example:
Tar sands get counted the same
Of course they do; we're talking about peak oil, not peak energy. You're conflating two significantly different things, which not only undermines your argument for anyone who realizes that, it muddies the situation and confuses people who might actually agree with you.
It would probably be more effective if you clearly and explicitly separated "declining quantities of liquid fuel" from "declining quantities of available energy" as arguments. You may see them as being inextricably linked, but trying to explain everything at once is rarely the most effective approach.
Perhaps true, but even C+C alone is up well over 1Mb/d since last year. Can you honestly say that those extra 1.2Mb/d of C+C are "fake"?
The fact that oil production honestly and truly grew in the last year isn't a challenge to the notion of peak oil, but it is a challenge to lazy and alarmist descriptions of it that keep mindlessly repeating the same tired, old "plateau since 2005" line.
Yes, there was a plateau, and this year it was broken; new facts require a new argument.
Memmel's self-imposed ban on responding to you is well regarded within the context of this poor example of supposed facts and logic.
C+C being up 1.2 since last year, when there was a supposedly intentional 1mb/d reduction by the KSA is meaningless. What does it mean to restrict then un-restrict production? Nothing. It means nothing. That does not represent new supply in any way, shape or form. The discussion you are having is about increases in supply, not resumptions of previous production. If you are attempting to claim you don't understand this, then I call foul.
Oil production grew? By how much? A couple hundred thousand barrels over what was possible already in 2006 and 2007? You are claiming this is a considerable and significant change? Earlier this year, when challenged to do so, the best Aramco could do was 300,000/d of production. That's going to save the world how, exactly?
Your claim that the plateau was "broken" indicates you have no understanding of stats, logic, or both. A 1 or 2% range in production over three or four years capped by a rise over previous peak of around 1% is a "break out" from plateau? No. this is a new absolute peak in production. It is likely well behind 2005 peak in terms of BTUs, as pointed out above. It is not a break of the plateau. To claim that, you would need a rise that is statistically close to or over a standard deviation above the previous peak and have it last a number of years. One year of even a statistically meaningful new peak is nothing but a one-time jump if it does not persist. That is, an anomoly, at best.
He is not suggesting they are fake. Very clearly Nate has stated that he does not believe that EROEI is the same this year as last year or the year before. Thus 100 barrels extracted at a cost of 10 barrels in 2000 versus 100 barrels extracted at a cost of 11 in 2005 versus 100 barrels extracted at a cost of 12 in 2008 are not the same. (I am just making up numbers to show the form of the argument, not the specifics.)
Pitt
1)yes. More natural gas use would decrease net energy not 'net liquid fuels'
2)I have very much on my plate and should probably post 'comments' less so I can focus on posts.
3)You are correct. I try to put too many subjects in one paragraph/post. It is a fault of mine. There are those who can follow it and those that cannot. No matter how eloquent or articulate I become however, the general person will continue to think of things in dollar terms, hence Peak Oil, broadly construed, is an inflationary event, not one that places hard limits on non-energy discretionary economy and propels us along the net energy cliff. The 2 very real impacts IF a net energy cliff is close are 1)price of oil going up more than price of other things (less ability to buy oil) and 2)more and more production coming offline as producers refuse to lose money. I expect for a while, the government will still 'lose' money as an oil producer, even at EROI breaken, as most energy inputs are non-liquid fuel..
4)do you have an opinion on Dollar/Euro situation? Are people in Ireland concerned?
I don't think it is a coincidence that the current debt defaults came at a time in history when oil extraction has flattened. We now longer had the underly resources growing at the rate they needed
Considering that the orthodox view of the current crisis is that the problem is rooted in the boom not being founded in actual value or production (i.e. the increasing house prices that everyone relied on were based mostly in people's belief in perpetually increasing house prices), I need to see some evidence of causation before I'm willing to accept this statement.
I probably should have written more, about how I equate modernity with belief relationships--which is made possible by credit. I am using the word credit more broadly. I am using the word credit to refer to any economic relationship that extends over time, and allows for economic behavior to be guided into the future. Crude oil futures curves, 25 year commercial construction loans, student loans, the ownership of fixed income securities by charitable trusts, and universities, and pension funds. Everything from letters of credit that allow for goods to be shipped over oceans, to commercial paper that allows a bread company to meet payroll before they have sold the requisite number of loaves. All of that defines modernity to me. The places that we can visit in the world that have none of these things are not modern. And I would neither want to live in those places, nor would I want to revert to them. So my view is that credit--from Latin, credere, to believe--is what makes modernity possible.
Of course, all ingenious inventions can be degraded, abused, contorted. And oh man, did we ever just commit such atrocities upon the modern credit system. For, it seems that every time humanity finds a way to secure itself a surplus through efficiency or other inventions of productivity, it never knows how to store the surplus. And those put in charge of managing the surplus tend to blow it.
I'm coming round to Gails view on this one because if you think about it we are shortly to experience the mother of all 'Black Swan' events (if you believe in PO). All the current debt structure is based around the future being pretty much as is. We saw what what happended in the financial markets when suddenly things where not what people expected -how much worse will it be when people begin to realize that the very future that enables debt to exist in its present form is taken away?
I'm not a Bond expert but it seems to me that Long Term debt is about to go through the roof. I'm not sure what shorter term debt will do -anyone?
Yes. The current hiding places, USD cash and USD treasuries, and JPY cash, are the next places where the Grim Reaper will come for his pound of flesh. Flows back into JPY and USD are of course temporary covering flows. Those flows are being conducted by those who control a ton of capital either in hedge funds or corporations. In other words, we don't have to wait for individuals to buy back into the USD and JPY, because it's the large stewards of capital who are doing it for them. The USD and US treasury bonds are being bought now at the highest prices either as short-covering or as flight to safety. These too are capitulation trades. They are the opposite side of the selling of assets.
Only those currencies backed by strong balance sheets will survive. The Australian and Canadian Dollars, The Chinese Yuan, The Swiss Franc. The USD and the JPY are garbage currencies, with soaring debt to GDP ratios behind them. They are frankly abused currencies, and they will be trashed once the world is done with them. On balance, I think the EUR will actually come out of this OK. But, I am not as sure about that. It's also possible that oil will get some currency flows.
The key idea here is that a short-covering mania into JPY and USD, and the flight to safety in T-bills at a time when they are being printed into oblivion, are foghorn type warnings that a new phase will unfold afterwards. I would sort of liken it to the tide going out right before the Tsunami hits. You know, you get that strange sucking of the water away from land way, way out. Then comes the major move.
When money leaves the US treasury bond market, it will make the current liquidation from equity markets look like small beer.
According to the rough estimates of the Global Footprint Network, Australia has a biocapacity of 12.4 ha/capita and a footprint of 6.6 ha/capita, Canada a biocapacity of 14.5 ha/capita and a footprint of 7.6 ha/capita.
So there may be more opportunity to pursue a sustainable export economy to back up the CA$ and A$ than for currencies of biocapacity deficit nations like Japan, the US, and China.
They call anything with living organisms in it "biologically active land." So that both images below are part of our counted "biocapacity".
While both are biocapacity, they're not equal in terms of being able to produce what we humans use in our day-to-day lives. But 1 million hectares of the Mallee are counted as the same as 1 million hectares of Queensland rainforest.
Much of Australia is actually savannah or desert, and even the "good" agricultural land has just a few inches of good soil. It's only been kept highly productive agriculturally by large inputs of energy (in fertiliser, pesticides, etc) and water (rice growing the savannah region of the Mallee).
So really Australia has less than 12.4ha pc it can use. This puts the "biocapacity" deficit countries like Japan - with 67% forest cover compared to Australia's 20% - into perspective. A comparison of biocapacity in area per person makes Japan look bad, and Australia good.
But a comparison of actual biocapacity - the total amount of living things - makes Australia look worse off than Japan. Australia's biocapacity is a lot more fragile than Japan's.
A networked system which is already under some tension is very vulnerable to extra tension. Much of our land is already marginal, a bit of climate change, and...
Well, we can improve our biocapacity. You know, plant trees and stuff. But we're hacking into it rather than trying to build it up.
Like old Japan, those guys with their 67% forest cover, they produce all the timber they need for building and furniture and so on. Most of the timber they import is for paper products. They've built up the biocapacity of their land, at the expense of that in Australia and Malaysia.
So we talk about a "biocapacity trade deficit" - well, in the case of biocapacity, you want to import more than you export! That builds your place up. Japan gets cut off from the world for some reason, okay they have less advertising fliers printed, big deal. They can still build stuff.
But nobody has to have any biocapacity trade deficit or surplus, yet can still build their own country's up. There are things we can do. We're just not doing them. We're a mining country - and one thing we mine is the fertility of the soil. Which isn't much to begin with.
Well, we can improve our biocapacity. You know, plant trees and stuff. But we're hacking into it rather than trying to build it up.
I am not suggesting that Oz has sane policy ... but that at the balance between resource base and population in Oz, there is every chance of doing well if a sane policy is adopted.
And regarding:
Japan gets cut off from the world for some reason, okay they have less advertising fliers printed, big deal. They can still build stuff.
... no, Japan gets cut off from the world for whatever reason, there is a loss in population as people starve. 67% forest cover amounting to 0.05 hectares per person ... that's 500 m^2. 20% forest cover ... heck, 10% forest cover amounting to 3.8 ha/capita is 38,000m^2.
I don't see why Japan would starve. Perhaps you are imagining that forests get in the way of food production? That's what Haiti thought, so they cut them all down and are now eating mud.
Japan is the ninth largest rice producer in the world, they have 2.3 million farmers with an average farm size of 0.8 hectares; most of those farmers use machines and are only farmers part-time. In a crisis situation with Japan cut off those machines wouldn't be fuelled, but many of their other jobs would disappear and they could work full-time with manual labour.
Japan's population is flat and expected to decline (to 95 million by 2050), so they only have to feed 127.4 million people, no more.
They produce 10.97 million tonnes of rice annually, and consume 8.7 million tonnes. Their 10.97 million tonnes produced are enough to supply them with 86kg each annually, which is 825 calories daily.
While this is well short of the 2,000 required, Japan does produce other food. For example, they harvest 4.8 million tonnes of fish (1.38 million tonnes) just from mariculture and aquaculture) annually, or 37.6kg each annually, which adds another 500 calories. And of course they produce 8.25 million tonnes of cow milk, 2.9 million tonnes of potatoes, and so on and so forth.
Like all developed countries, if cut off from fossil fuels overnight they'd have a very hard time with their agriculture. But absent a global war, that's very unlikely. Really agricultural production follows a formula,
Labour x technology x biocapacity = production
If your technology disappears, so long as your biocapacity is strong and you have plenty of labour, you won't starve. It's countries like Australia with relatively low biocapacity, and that threatened by climate change, that would be most in trouble - knock off the technology, and all we're left with is labour.
Which doesn't mean I think we'll starve, either. But I do think that we'd have a harder time than Japan, simply because whatever the Ecological Footprint statistics say, they have greater biocapacity in their country.
On the other hand, if the Japanese find themselves without electricity for all their electronic gadgets then we could see a Japan Armageddon :)
But a comparison of actual biocapacity - the total amount of living things - makes Australia look worse off than Japan. Australia's biocapacity is a lot more fragile than Japan's.
20% forest cover on 7.692m km^2 for 20m would be 7.7 hectares per person versus 67% forest cover on 0.378m km^2 for 127m would be 0.051 hectares/person.
That is not to say that Australia has the water resources to sustainably support a substantially larger population, but the land mass itself of 38.4 hectares per capita means that Australia has opportunities in terms of per capita harvest of solar and wind resource that far exceeds the opportunities of either the immediate neighborhood to the north or further abroad in the East Pacific Rim.
Yes, I said somewhere else in the thread that we can build up our biocapacity.
But we're not doing it, and there's no sign we will be any time soon. I mean, look at the Murray-Darling...
As for Greening the Desert, that's a remarkable project, with remarkable results. But... once Geoff Lawton took off, the project was abandoned. The desert has gone back to being desert.
I'd love to see these things happen everywhere. "Permaculture" is the first word of the subtitle of my blog, after all. But it seems it's not easy for them to happen, and harder still for them to keep on under their own energy once they're going.
Either way, for the immediate future Australia has a large area of biocapacity, but it's very shallow in depth, and overall very fragile.
Either way, for the immediate future Australia has a large area of biocapacity, but it's very shallow in depth, and overall very fragile.
And over the long term, the quality of life will be substantially better if the transition from the current policy regime takes place in ten rather than twenty years, and better still if it takes place in five.
Relative to Japan, however, Australia is quite well positioned, insane current policy stance and all.
Jared Diamond disagrees with the conclusion in your last paragraph. According to Diamond (in his famous book, "Collapse") Australia is one of the most vulnerable to collapse of all high-income nations. Australia has a fragile ecosystem.
Japan will have to import food and energy, no matter what. On the other hand, the big role of nuclear power in generating Japan's electricity is a big plus facture for Japan. Finally, Japan has an unsurpassed reputation for producing industrial goods of high quality.
Under what circumstances would Japan be "cut off" from imports and exports?
Under what circumstances would Japan be "cut off" from imports and exports?
That is a question to pose to Kiashu, it is his argument that due to having 67% forest cover, Japan could continue to build if cut off from imports and exports.
What kind of plausible scenario can anyone build in which Japan is cut off from imports and exports? The only one I can think of is World War III in which there are all-out thermonuclear exchanges between Russia and the U.S. IMO, such a World War III scenario is highly unlikely--maybe one chance in five hundred. Fifty years ago I thought there was a fifty-fifty chance of such a war, but the world has changed a great deal during the past fifty years--in some ways much for the better.
I read it as a statement regarding Japan's potential self-sufficiency, not a statement regarding a likely event. Since you claim that:
Japan will have to import food and energy, no matter what.
... you seem to be agreeing with me and disputing Kiashu, who said:
Like old Japan, those guys with their 67% forest cover, they produce all the timber they need for building and furniture and so on. Most of the timber they import is for paper products. They've built up the biocapacity of their land, at the expense of that in Australia and Malaysia.
...
... Japan gets cut off from the world for some reason, okay they have less advertising fliers printed, big deal. They can still build stuff.
In Collapse Diamond had a lot to say about Japan and their forest situation as well. In essence Japan now has extensive forests because they use other countries timber rather than their own. It isn't really a sustainable practice because the needs of Japan outstrip their capacity as well.
Australia overall can be pretty much self-sustaining in terms of crops and mineral resources but not oil. Of course, crops can be renewable but mineral resources are finite. This self-sustaining capability is on the proviso that we actually apply some decent sustainability principles rather than the some of the quasi-sustainbility practices we have in place now. (Gunns - I am talking about you.) A lot of our excessive farming practices in the past had to do with crops and animals for export.
At times I am both despondant and joyed at the progress of Australian land use practices. At this stage I am firmly in the category of 'watch this space' and hedging my bets to whether we are actually headed in the right direction. :)
I don't know whether if I was Japan I would be putting my trust into nuclear power. A highly seismic environment and little ability to store nuclear waste will eventually come back to bite them in the long term. Far better for them to take stock in something more mundane but less risky like tidal power.
Australia overall can be pretty much self-sustaining in terms of crops and mineral resources but not oil.
Of course, this is self-sustaining at the current footprint per capita ... given an overly car-dependent transport system, ample opportunity to shift the transport system to a more sustainable level, and with excessive sprawl development, ample opportunity to shift the settlement system to a more sustainable level.
Horne's "run by second rate people who share its luck" syndrome continues in full force, so the biocapacity will be less per capita in another ten years than now, and the longer before policy is reversed, the more materially frugal a sustainable living standard will be ... but compared to China, Japan or even, as long as the food distribution system is so heavily dependent on truck freight, the US, Oz has substantially more leeway to muddle through.
Gregor: Very eloquent. The current situation re the USD reminds me of the housing bubble in that you know it will reverse drastically but you don't know when.
Well put. As of Thursday evening, the US Treasury had issued $559 billion in special Treasury bills and notes to accomadate panic levels of demand. While an argument could be made that new Federal Reserve money is going in a circular path back to finance the Treasury, it is not a closed loop. In other words the Treasury is sucking in a great amount of the world's wealth recently. But before long when the panic wave of dollar buying is over, 1% interest rates earned on a currency that is about to hyperinflate its money supply won't be very appealing.
All the while the money stays ties up in Treasury, it is not being invested in companies around teh world.
So yes, this the tide going out before the tsunami. One can only wonder what will happen when that wave crashes and destroys the financial structures built upon dollars.
... But before long when the panic wave of dollar buying is over, 1% interest rates earned on a currency that is about to hyperinflate its money supply won't be very appealing.
It is too early to tell where the dollar is going to wind up. With all goods falling to 'pawn shop' levels of value, it is hard to see anything of value left for the dollar to reflect.
You'll be able to pick up a Picasso for a song ... can you sing?
Fortunately, confinement of dollars to the corridors of finance keeps them from fueling inflation and the instant reaction of spiraling interest rates.
Unfortunately, confinement of dollars to the corridors of finance keeps them out of the hands of the people in the real world, where they might be turned to productive use.
I'm not sure I can explain this so that it is clear to others, but I feel you have edged towards my core response to the article: I see no limit based on the slowest link. A failure is a failure is a failure. It doesn't matter the nature of the link, only that it is necessary. I.e., it's not an issue of weakest links, but of being irreplaceable.
Credit is irreplaceable. Spending is irreplaceable. Growth is irreplaceable. Trust is irreplaceable. Etc.
It doesn't matter what fails, only that something does.
Investment + Debt-financed consumption + (Trade Surplus) + (Government Budget Deficit) is bigger than 0, there is net saving in that period.
That saving is the accumulation of the promises from going concerns financing the investment, and the promises from consumers financing the consumption, and the promises from the Rest Of the World (ROW), financing the ROW trade deficit, plus the promises from the government created when government spends that were not in turn extinguished by tax receipts.
The "pool of savings" is an accumulated pile of promises.
When the evolution of the economy means that those who have made promises are more and more able to make good on them, that is increasing financial robustness.
When the evolution of the economy means that those who have made promises are less and less able to make good on them, that is increasing financial fragility.
Stochastic risks are readily taken into account in fancy financial modelling, because stochastic risks are being realized at an ongoing rate. But systemic risks tend to be realized in clumps.
At the turn of the Century, the US adopted a policy of experimenting with whether firms chasing returns on a time frame of a quarter or quicker would find ways to systematically under-rate systemic risks and so take out as income what should have been retained as prudential reserves ... essentially, stripping buffers out of the system.
CDO's were not regulated, CDS's were removed from regulation by any federal authority and could only be regulated by state authority if they represented actual insurable risks ... that is, only the least problematic of CDS's could be regulated, not the creation of CDS's and their acquisition by those without an actual risk exposure, which allows CDS's to be created that are many multiples of the actual asset at risk of default.
Indeed, in addition to the above essay, should be added systemic risk concentration and systemic risk amplification.
"Trash" tranches of CDO's represent a concentration of systemic risk, by the nature of the junior/senior preference on claims of income from mortgages. But the demand was for investment-grade rated CDO's. So they built CDO's OUT OF CDO's, "second tier" CDO's that use the same Senior/Junior preference claim system to generate "investment grade" quality CDO's out of a pile of trash-grade CDO's. It was financial magic that worked precisely by systematically under-estimating systemic risk, so that the concentration of systemic risk meant that the quality of the supposed investment grade seoncd-tier CDO's were not in fact investment grade.
And then sometimes a third tier was built from the trash from second tier CDO's. Where in case of a "unexpected" (but quite widely anticipated) across the board increase in mortgage default rates, the senior tranches in the third tier would be senior preference claims on zero money flowing in. Oops.
And the lack of requirement for an insurable interest to hold CDS's meant that rather than regular insurance that shifts exposure to default, the by-law-unregulated naked CDS's could multiply the exposure to default.
And both were happening at the same time, so that institutions that were supposedly holding all investment grade assets, but in reality were holding a large quantity of chickenshit assets, could have their hidden risk of default multiplied by people taking bets on whether or not they would default. And since CDS's are not regulated as insurance, so there is no requirement that issuers actually have a balance sheet that would be able to cover total CDS exposure even in normal financial conditions.
So strip out storage buffers, add network interconnections, and add failure amplifiers to the system. Its like you start with the diary's network system and then add a process that generates network traffic to attempt to notify everybody that there is a network problem, creating an internally-generated denial of service attack.
IOW, we were creating a system encouraging promises to be made that could not be kept. Once we allowed that, the other side of the liabilities would show up somewhere as savings that people thought they were holding even though the promises were on shaky ground.
Blaming the pool of savings for the problem is like blaming the thermometer for a high fever.
Ecology studies what makes interconnected systems prone to collapse or resilient ... its not like any of this is a mystery. It was just in the short term interests of those handing out as income what should have been prudential reserves and pretending that high yield junk assets were high yield investment grade assets to turn a blind eye and replace what we know about how systems work with market-faith ideology.
So strip out storage buffers, add network interconnections, and add failure amplifiers to the system. Its like you start with the diary's network system and then add a process that generates network traffic to attempt to notify everybody that there is a network problem, creating an internally-generated denial of service attack.
Ouch. So true. The more I delve into it, the more I tremble in fear. And you know what really hurts? It wasn't an accident. The people who did this are not idiots. Some of them did the best they could to minimise risk, but ultimately they weren't paid to minimise risk - they were paid to maximise profit and HIDE risk.
aeldric.
I am very pro-globalization and have been since I was a teenager and attended an international school and felt the liberation that comes from getting one foot out of my culture.
The problem here lies in conflating cultural exchange with trade. In this era of the internet there is no reason - so long as the internet functions and is generally available - that cultural exchange might continue while localization ends much of global trade.
There is a second problem here in conflating trade and flows of wealth.
The Bretton Woods system that preceded the Washington Consensus financial globalisation system saw substantial growth in trade ... and, with systems in place that limited flows of financial wealth in place.
What changed was not the growth in trade, but the growth in financial flows. For "major" currencies, it is normal for more than 90% of balance of payments transactions to occur in the capital accounts.
The term "trade" also conflates trade between different parties, and "trade" with the same party on both sides ... flow of work in progress between subsidiaries of the same corporation. An advantage of trade in terms of economic networks is the ability of trade partners to take a "hands off" attitude to the politics of the other country, with an event disrupting supply in one country leading trade partners to other producers in other countries. However, if the production process is integrated across national boundaries ... which requires foreign direct investment which hinges on financial globalisation ... that "hands off" attitude is no longer an option, and the transnational corporation interferes with political events across multiple nations.
"I am very pro-globalization and have been since I was a teenager and attended an international school and felt the liberation that comes from getting one foot out of my culture."
I think you are confusing globalization; the theory that all economic activity should take place in the physical location which provides the lowest financial costs and greatest ROI, with multiculturalism; the practice of mingling many different cultural groups together and cross-fertilising food, culture and language.
London, I am told, is a good example of a globalised non-multicultural city. Although many cultural groups exists, they do tend to remain static in various fixed enclaves in the city (West Indians, Central Asians, etc etc).
Excellent as usual Nate. Missed you at Charlie Hall's meeting in Syracuse. Had hoped to meet you in person!
Personally I suspect the whole system will crash and we will need to reboot. On what, I'm not sure unless we can isolate and maintain a critical core of energy production and knowledge for the next go-around. But we need to learn all we can from this dynamic, and understanding the relationship between energy, work, and the real economy is vital. Maybe next time we will do a better job.
I agree with everything you say except for the statement that economics is fatally flawed. Conventional economic ideas are always fatally flawed, because they are always fighting the last war, just as military conventional wisdom is so often flawed because of fighting the last war instead of the current one.
Keynesian economics was radically new in the 1930s, but it was right for the 1930s, while all the classical economics that ruled in 1930 was fatally flawed. Keynes explicitly recognized that his economic recommendations applied specifically to the Great Depression problems and might not be useful in other situations. Well, as Milton Friedman said, "We are all Keynesians now." Indeed we are, and this tends to limit our thinking and steer us away from steady-state economics.
But what you are doing (ecological economics) is still economics. It still looks at scarcity as the foundation of economics, and each and every one of the basic economic ideas apply: Opportunity cost, the production possibility frontier, supply and demand, aggregate supply and demand, the need to account for externalities (preferably with a market-based solution), market failures, including monopoly and asymmetric information.
Thus there is a lot of validity in conventional economics, just as Keynes used a lot of classical economics in his thinking. I came to accept steady-state economics some thirty years ago: My thinking then and now has come from a grounding in conventional economics.
And what were the thoughts of Keynes and Friedman on financial fraud-did they feel there should be penalties or should the perpetrators be elevated to positions of high importance? IMO until the tolerance for financial fraud lessens the whole situation is going to get a lot worse-just yesterday Taiwan publicly called Moodys et al a bunch of criminals-the USA can let the grifters run the country but they cannot force the entire world to finance it forever.
Both Keynes and Friedman believed in laws against financial fraud and strict enforcement of these laws. Offhand, I can't think of a single notable economist who has ever said that we do not need firm government enforcement of laws against fraud. Fraud is a market failure, sort of a negative externality, and as such is loathsome to economists.
Even Milton Friedman, who favored minimal government regulation, emphatically endorsed laws against force and fraud; minimal regulation most certainly does not mean no regulation.
Those guys are all dead. Keynes said that we are all ruled by the scribbling of some defunct economist.
Economists never rule. They advise. Typically those in power never listen when economists tell them to raise taxes or to cut spending, hence the long-term inflationary bias that we have seen since 1913.
For at least the past forty years, hundreds of notable economists have urged the U.S. government to put a stiff tax on gasoline because of its negative externalities. All economists recognize externalities and want to get rid of them, because externalities create inefficiency, and economists (except maybe Herbert Simon and Joseph Schumpeter, two of my favorites) hate inefficiency with a fierce passion.
If you want to stop white collar crime at the highest levels, you have to fit the punishment to the crime. Locking up a criminal in a blue collar prison for stealing $200 from a liquor store is not the same as a white collar criminal stealing several million dollars. We have a progressive income tax system in America. Perhaps it is time to have a progressive punishment system as well based on the dollar amount of the crime. A million dollar crime should get you 20 years in prison. A ten million dollar crime should get you life. We also need to come to grips with two levels of incarceration, at least in America. Putting a white collar criminal in a "minimum security facility", also know as a county club prison, is just plain stupid. The damage they do to society is far worse than what blue collar criminals do.
Why should those who commit financial crimes at the highest levels care? The risk to profit ratio looks pretty good from where I stand.
Our inability to deal with high end, white collar crime is the primary reason the world's economy is in free fall. Locking up for life, several thousands of the worst white collar criminals over the last twenty years, those who stole (it's not fraud, it's stealing) the largest amounts of money would have prevented this. Focusing on high end, white collar crime would have forced us to pass more laws we desperately needed to keep pace with our evolving, complex economies. Instead, we chose to grab onto the gravy train and pretend all was well.
The money we needed to help alleviate peak oil, global warming, and famine is simply no longer available. The world's economy will not recover in time. Systems needed to maintain our standard of living will begin to fail. Not so much because of interconnectivity as due to a lack of money to maintain them. Now, my biggest fear is a worldwide pandemic.
We treat a corporation as a legal person when its to the advantage of the corporation ... but refuse to "incarcerate" it when it commits a crime that brings jail time.
Establish a corporate jail ... freeze shareholdings, put the corporation under administration for the length of the jail sentence, and retain any net earnings to compensate the victims.
If Corporations were on the hook for things that were not the fault of individuals, we would see far more vigorous prosecution of white collar criminals driven by corporations wanting to avoid it being a corporate act.
I have written elsewhere that pandemic is now a very real concern. With economic chaos raging and employment uncertain, will people still kill every chicken the next time there is an outbreak of Bird flu? Will MDR TB still be ruthlessly treated with very expensive drug cocktails?
Historically, disease and war have always ridden with famine and death when apocalypse prevailed. For a few brief decades we fought disease to a draw, and we thought the horseman was defeated. Not so.
But what you are doing (ecological economics) is still economics
Don - first of all, I do not subscribe to everything about ecological economics, even though its where my phd program resides. They have gone too far in putting $ values on nature and not far enough exploring human nature and our evolved demand mechanisms. In fact, EE is being slowly subsumed by cognitive neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, and even conventional economics, which are all painting a picture that man as rational actor is the exception not the rule.
Economics plain and simple, is human behavioural ecology applied to a large population that had access to a perceived unlimited energy supply. The 'economic concepts' of value within economics that you point out are more psychological and behavioural than economic. Economics applied to an era of human behaviour when the planet was empty and there were few planetary resource limitations. What will replace it might contain some of the economic 'rules' (e.g. comparative advantage), but will fall under a biology/natural science umbrella.
Agree that economics has some useful observations about human behavior some of the time. But most economic concepts are either based on tautologies (utility is that which is preferred which is utility) and conflated understanding of wide boundary correlation causation. The main difference between walrasian welfare economics and ecological economics is the latter assumes the human system is embedded in a larger system, where the former assumes the environment is part of the human economic system. On that point, I am 100% in agreement with the ecological economists..
Hey Nate, I caught this part in particular: "They have gone too far in putting $ values on nature"
This has been my main beef with Ecological Economics, but my sense (coming largely outside of the academic discussions within the field) is that this is also controversial.
Perhaps given that we are seeing how trillions of dollars can be instantly created by central banks while nature is continually liquidated will lead to further questioning of the validity of assigning U.S. Federal Reserve Note values on what I would argue is actually priceless, i.e., a planet that can reliably sustain thriving populations of organisms that emergently regulate and dampen extremes in the cycles of water, climate and biogeochemical flows.
Odum describes the flow of money as one of the control feedbacks on production. That the system as a whole has now destroyed the control loop - the implications are hard to wrap my brain around.
I do think - but cannot prove - that the net energy argument is right on target. Declining returns. Isn't that also Jay Hanson's argument? (Plus the biology.)
Dollar values on their own are for situations where the various costs and benefits are at the same level of priority.
But, evidently, the "ecosystem services" that are required for the survival of a society must be available in order for the allocation rules in a society, whatever they may be, to have any relevance.
Putting dollar values on "ecosystem services" presumes that they are at the same level of priority as other economic costs and benefits. Now, that may seem to be an improvement over putting them at lower priority, but it is clearly not good enough. Where they are essential to survival of a society, a sane society must place their preservation at a higher priority than dollar valuations.
A first step in that direction is the principle of strong sustainability ... but if we have already overshot, even the principle of strong sustainability may understate the priority of halting and reversing ecosystem degradation.
Jason you're right on target. Others, too, have postulated that at least certain natural resources, most profoundly oil, will eventually be acknowledged as priceless. It is as if, at some point, humanity becomes a tribe in which there's only so much magic dust, for every human being to go around. So much peak oil commentary reaches out haltingly, tentatively, for a way to allocate resources transcending--or predating--price and economics. It's like, oh no, we've just discovered a relatively standalone, self-regulating pricing system won't keep us warm and fed properly; and now warmth and satiety must be negotiated or legislated. People can see we don't have an indefinite, much less infinite, supply of the magic fluid from beneath the earth. And so we might as well regard the trillion or so barrels that remain as lying exposed above the surface, say, in a big pot. Who gets to stick in their straws for how much and--as important as anything--when? Yipes.
The main difference between walrasian welfare economics ...
Note that Walrasian welfare economics is invalid in its own terms ... Walrasian General Equilibrium analysis was shown to be a dead end in the 1970's, utility theory has been known to be invalid as a scientific theory of human behavior since before WWII ... many would say since before WWI ... and despite rationalizations that for predictive purposes it is OK if things work "as if" the utility model was valid, welfare implications of utilitarian marginal analysis requires that the model be an accurate model of human preferences.
So its not necessary to look for reasons to prefer something to Walrasian welfare economics, since Walrasian welfare economics are not valid social science.
Keynes of course said that his recommendations during the Great Depression were for the problems of the Great Depression, but he also argued that his theory of money, employment and interest was a General theory.
The real flaw was in the effort after the war (and Keynes' death) to try to negotiate a cease-fire inside economics departments with a bastard child of General Theory macroeconomics and marginalist microeconomics. That is what gave us the post-war Samuelsonian hydraulic Keynesian economics.
But while the General Theory makes no assumption about natural resources, and can certainly be applied to economies facing serious natural resource constraints, hydraulic Keynesian models tacitly assume unlimited resources, so the "Keynesian policy" stereotypes that people pick up are fatally flawed ... and indeed, that is a big reason why bastard Keynesian/marginalist economics fell over in a heap in the face of the first two Oil Price Shocks.
Marginalist economics must take the viability of the economic system for granted in its analysis, because system viability is not something that can be ensured by marginal optimizations. And any marginal optimization must occur within a given system, so the marginalist economics must also take for granted "the system that we should have".
Therefore, when faced with fundamental questions of economic development and survival of an economy, marginalist economics can only address secondary issues, and is incapable of addressing the main issues.
However, that does not mean that "economics" generically is fatally flawed ... while marginalist economics define economics as applying marginal analysis to a problem, if we define economics as the study of the material provisioning of society, there are a range of approaches to the understanding of economics that provide a line of attack on big questions of economic development and economic survival.
Recall Keynes's short article "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren." He ASSUMED a stable population and ASSUMED that technological advances would continue to enable real economic growth per capita of 2% annualy for about 108 years (eight doublings) from 1930. Now if his assumptions had been true, then his conclusion--that the economic problem of scarcity was solvable in principle--would have been true also.
But Keynes wrote in a world of two billion people enjoying the bounty of cheap and abundant oil. Technology, especially energy technology, has not improved at a rate of 2% per year past the nineteen sixties. (I'm measuring technological advances as Solow does, i.e. as a residual to account for growth that is not accounted for by other factors. However, Solow never worried about Peak Oil.) We had solar energy in the nineteen sixties; we had nuclear energy then, and except for more efficient wind turbines and cheaper solar panels and somewhat more efficient batteries, we have made little progress since the nineteen sixties in energy technology. Keynes never dreamt in his worst nightmares of the Green Revolution and the consequent explosion of the world's population. Nor did he think that oil was a limiting factor to growth, just as limitations in coal production did not halt nineteenth century economic growth. With an undergratuate education in Medieval Latin literature, Keynes never had much interest in engineering or hard sciences such as physics, chemistry, and geology.
To a large extent, for all of us, we are prisoners of our own time, of our own experiences. Keynes's idea that poverty might be eliminated was--in my opinion--correct. But we're not going to be able to rely on economic growth for progress against poverty in the future.
Economic growth is no longer the solution to our problems. It is the problem. (along with population growth)
Recall Keynes's short article "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren." He ASSUMED a stable population and ASSUMED that technological advances would continue to enable real economic growth per capita of 2% annually for about 108 years (eight doublings) from 1930.
They were assumptions that he made when he wrote that piece. But, unlike the Samuelsonian theory that is was people normally meant by "Keynesian Economics" in the US after WWII, his General Theory analysis does not require those assumptions.
Keynes was horrified of the settlement terms after WW1, and could see the chaos os this strategy.
He was right of course.
A letter from Keynes to FDR:
The United States is ready to roll toward prosperity,
if a good hard shove can be given in the next
six months. Could not the energy and enthusiasm
which launched the NBA in its early days be put
behind a campaign for accelerating capital expenditures,
as wisely chosen as the pressure of circumstances
permits? You can at least feel sure that the
country will be better enriched by such projects
than by the involuntary idleness of millions.
I put in the second place the maintenance of cheap
and abundant credit, in particular the reduction of
the long-term rate of interest. The turn of the tide
in Great Britain is largely attributable to the reduction
in the long-term rate of interest which ensued
on the success of the conversion of the war loan.
This was deliberately engineered by the open-market
policy of the Bank of England.
I see no reason why you should not reduce the
rate of interest on your long-term government bonds
to 2%% or less, with favorable repercussions on the
whole by the market, if only the Federal Reserve
System would replace its present holdings of shortdated
Treasury issues in exchange. Such a policy
might become effective in a few months, and I attach
great importance to it.
I have always thought that the issue of the relationship between financial markets and the "real economy" was really deep. I thought that it was a critical part of macroeconomic theory that was poorly developed. But the economics profession for the past thirty years instead focused on producing stochastic calculus porn to satisfy young men's urge for mathematical masturbation.
According to my spreadsheet, 2006 was the maximum BTU at 23,883 trillion. To me, it looks like a 'rolling plateau' for the last few years. More troubling, the average million BTU per ton is dropping with 2007 being the lowest at 20.5.
Your "a small door for a whole lot of elephants" is a good way to describe the debt pickle we are getting into. A huge table of dominoes has been slowly laid out over the years and the first few are falling.
Historically, we are here:
This mountain of debt will never be all paid back with interest without some kind of severe dislocation in the economy or the structure of the economy.
The relatively insignificant stock market margin debt unwind of 2000-2003, which fueled the bear market then, pales in comparison to the unwind that is beginning. Not only is there much more stock market margin debt this time, it is all mixed in with all the other debt, which is much more massive and all in high distress this time.
The last Great Debt Unwind was, of course the Great Depression. The upcoming Great Unwind may well be something different. Such a different thing is being discussed in high circles. Following the Biblical Israeli practice of Jubilee (cancelling all debt every 50 years) a new debt free world was discussed by Jubilee South clear back in 2005 when all was peaceful in Debt World. I suspect this Jubilee thing will be getting more attention as the elephants really begin running at the small door.
Heres an analysis I sent to some friends last night. This chart is a few days old (I gave up my bloomberg 4 years ago and now have to rely on favors from friends):
Essentially, the world is undergoing a global margin call. Borrowed money in dollars and yen is being repatriated, causing huge rallies in those 2 currencies. At the same time, everything that was 'invested in' with that money is gravitating towards neutral (no longs, no shorts). Most people buy stocks and commodities, and given Peak Oil on the horizon, many have bought energy stocks. These things have gone down the most. The above chart shows the correlation between Euro/Yen cross, the Hedge Fund Aggregate Index, and the SP500 - as I said it is 4 days old. ($/Euro traded below 1.25 earlier this am and Yen hit 110)
The Baltic Dry Shipping index, an indicator of the health of global shipping trade, is down again today, and down over 90% from it's May levels. Below is a brief analysis of the correlations of the TED spread (measure of health of credit market), the Baltic Dry Shipping Index and crude oil (WTI)
I used Bloomberg data for the past 12 months. Over that time, the TED spread had a -.44 correlation (R^2) with crude oil. The Baltic Index had a .31 positive correlation with crude prices. (the TED spread had a -.59 correlation with Baltic Index). Nothing overwhelming. I hypothesize this would also have been the case over longer periods.
However, if I just use prices since July, the TED spread had a -.88 correlation with oil and the Baltic had a .96 !!! correlation with crude oil (Baltic and TED = -.92) I assume the correlation with $/Euro and Euro/Yen would have even been closer to 1 for 1 with financial selloffs. The sheer magnitude of financial capital in relation to real capital was pointed out a long 6 weeks ago in Energy, Hurricanes and Hedge Funds
Conclusions:
1)We are having a 6 sigma global margin call. Assets are uncorrelated until they become correlated. This is a perfect example of how our financial and physical systems are all linked and people don't even realize it. Failure of networked systems indeed.
We all know this is due to a global deleveraging of the 2 trillion+ hedge fund capital and other bank selling. It is pretty clear now that repatriated Euro/Yen and Dollar/Euro funding crosses are the main impetus for liquidations:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/324292...
That on top of new news this am that wall street banks are again tightening margin requirements. It's a small door for a whole lot of elephants.
2)The above is a perfect example of why economics is fatally flawed. Business schools, nobel prize winning economists, etc. have done all their 'analysis' on the longer term historical correlations of interest rates, resources, capital markets etc. (which existed in an environment of perception of perpetual growth, and when notional financial credit/money did not dwarf natural capital). Poof - out of nowhere there are now strong correlations. Just like out of nowhere you see Baltic Shipping Index become 1 for 1 correlated with oil, I expect one day you will see the same thing with ALL financial assets (including treasuries). The Capital Asset Pricing Model will be rewritten (I'm attempting to do just that if I have time)- as all conventional 'assets', (including T-bills, eventually) comprise one abstract asset class, "financial", which is a marker for real assets: Natural Capital (water, energy, land), Built Capital (solar panels, houses, trucks), Social Capital (relationships), and Human Capital (knowledge, skills, etc.).
Economic growth has occured as humans combined a vast energy surplus with creativity, other resources (technology) and iterations (time). There is NO natural law that says stocks will average 10% a year over the long haul. This is a fantasy sold to us by salespeople on Wall St. (good people for the most part, they are just following what they learned in school). The business schools right now represent one of the largest wastes of resources and brain power in our country - other than the statistics and a few neat economic truisms (e.g. comparative advantage), everything they are teaching is based on false premises. Other than IPOs and new stock offerings, commodities speculation, hedge funds, derivatives, and fractional reserve banking by private banks is nothing but abstract wealth without foundation.
I hypothesize (can't prove because I don't have data), that net energy for the global economic system peaked in 1999-2000. (though it is clear that despite new nominal highs, US Coal in terms of BTU peaked in 1998, and this doesn't include the energy cost of extraction)
As direct energy surplus declines, we have to replace it somehow - first from the poor countries and poor people (via rising GINI coefficient) and from the environment. This means approving low income housing loans, deregulating financial markets so that firms can 'borrow' more 'abstract energy surplus' (money), and relaxing of rules and oversight that in times of cheap energy were enacted for a reason. The fiat system is now bankrupt and is playing hot potato. If the potato gets too hot it will lead to war. Archduke Dick Fuld Ferdinand? I kid you not - it is that serious. I hope people making decisions are smart enough to know that we really are still rich (as a planet), but a master plan of spinning our wheels in order to increase abstract digits in the bank (with an obstensible objective of routinely trading them in for short term gratification (which quickly becomes garbage) is neither sustainable, nor in the end, enjoyable. But I expect they will try and solve this using the same tactics that were successful in the past - some sort of Keynesian spending scheme with even lower interest rates, as if that would help. Perhaps they should look at capital flows and if the Central Banks want to intervene, it might help to short the dollar and yen and provide a floor until these hedge fund liquidations are over.
There is still time, but some very uncomfortable choices are going to have to be made. Change the demand system and institutions to be consistent with our evolutionary drivers. Work towards procuring and using energy wisely on both supply and demand side. Build local infrastructure for basic needs. Reslience over efficiency. Redundancy over cheapness.
Nate,
There's some very interesting thoughts in there which probably deserve a full post, rather than a comment to another interesting post,
Peter.
Nate:Very detailed and thoughtful reply. The problem I see is that the temperatures I am reading in our economic reactor core are going supercritical. The decision makers and deciders: shrub,paulson, greenjeans and the rest of the congressional keystone cops are dashing around in thoughtless Brownian movement chaos throwing garbage at the wall hoping something will stick. We are living through the death throes of a fatally optimized highly coupled financial system which is undergoing unstable oscillation. None of your suggestions can be implemented in a panic and collapse scenario. Building redundancy into a previously optimized industrial economy is probably not possible without a total or near total collapse IMO. I will give you a Wyoming metaphor: Once you climb on the bull, there is nothing you can do to alter the outcome.
Building redundancy into a previously optimized industrial economy
Redundancy in business is not rewarded via cashflow.
Which is why it is so often provided either by a public authority or by a regulatory requirement on all firms that wish to continue participating in some market segment.
Funny ... good metaphor. OUCH!
Actually, there are things that must be done. The world will spin and things will need attending to for those not on the bull.
-- A safety net needs to be jury- rigged into place. This crisis is serious; people in America will freeze and starve if there isn't some sort of basic care plan put into place. Having the National Guard drive around in circles will not cut it. Our government is failing to perform its duty and officials deserve to be prosecuted for dereliction and gross negligence. The worst may not happen, but it appears that it may. If it doesn't and we have a chance to avoid disaster, preparation for disaster is a good drill. If the worst happens and the economy grinds to a halt it is imperative to be prepared.
-- A plan must be developed for a command economy. This is the form of economy that will take the place of our current mess after it's done and a fork is stuck in it. The presumption is the crisis will develope quickly to the point of total collapse because of the amount of debt and unfunded liabilities overhanging the productive part of the economy. In this case the transition to the coammand economy would take place right away.
If the collapse is instead a slow decline, as in the 1930's, the government can attempt the run of ad- hoc remedies that were part of the New Deal or it can cut to the chase and embrace what will work; the command economy.
Paulson, Rubin, Summers, Bernanke et al have about as much chance of setting up a command economy as they do riding saddle bronc. There are records from the Roosevelt administration as well as a few old- timers still alive who could instruct bureaucrats how to set one up and make it function properly. Or, the government can send so people over to observe the Chinese, who have a tightly managed almost- not- quite- command economy.
The goal of the command economy would be three- fold. One would be to insure that everyone has renumerative work and sustain themselves over the transition period. The work would certainly not be war- related as it was in the 1930's and 1940's; there are a lot of infrastructure issues that need fixing, plus the business of survival will require a lot more capital and labor than is visible in our current form of widely distributed production. Second, would be to prepare the transition to the 'post- command' economy, which will be a lot different than what we have now ... and will probably be unfamiliar to anyone except for a few academic economists. The third aim would be to simplify the production cycle and get people in America used to making do with less . This will also be the most effective way to boost energy production. Btu's not used in the moment ... will be available for use later.
An incidental outcome would be the central government would husband ... or grow ... relevance as the result of services provided ... rather than by the exertion of government 'authority'.
Right now, it has diminishing authority and no plan, except for the sort of plan made by bank robbers ...
Is it reasonable to expect that there will be enough remunerative work to employ everybody if real GDP declines year after year? I do not think that is possible. Personally, I advocate a negative income tax to deal with the Greater Depression to come. It would not surprise me if the unemployement rate rises to thirty percent or more over the next dozen years. This will be both cyclical and structural unemployment, and the structural component will be harder to deal with than the cyclical component.
I grow more convinced that it was and remains 1. the size of the global pool of savings, and 2. those who were hired to manage that global pool of savings, that brought us these horrors. Now, with the global money-flood underway, a new wave of capital is hitting the system--even if one believes that a great deal of the former pool either was or is being destroyed. Concentration of influence over the management of the global pool of savings is sort of analagous to previous times in history when political power was over-concentrated, and decisions affecting the whole were made by a few. (this is always the case but at times goes to even stronger extremes).
After the JPY and USD short-covering process peters out, I think we are going to be right back into the heart of the situation that persisted this decade which is that oil is more valuable than currencies, and there will be the multiplier effect of the global money flood starting to hit. This will be exacerbated by the period of time oil spends below 80.00.
As for the system, I conjecture that we are in control of the system and not the other way around, and the system that I identify as being synonymous with modernity is in fact the credit (belief) system which is really just a way of making economic relationships efficient. If we want to dismantle this efficiency and revert to a primitive, payment on demand system than we can do that. I can't imagine why anyone would welcome that or look forward to it. It would at bottom be an enormous waste of energy (time). Local currencies, gold, silver, demanding one's wages at the end of each day, scarce inventories in the food and fuel delivery systems would all be present, in such a reversion.
I am very pro-globalization and have been since I was a teenager and attended an international school and felt the liberation that comes from getting one foot out of my culture. However, I recognize the horrors that have now unfolded from the velocity of capital that is attendant to globalization, and now that the system is massive, it needs more control. In short, I fear that globalization will be rejected in whole, as an emotional reaction, and we will enjoy some benefits but on balance experience alot more darkness in return.
G
In a world with declining extractable resources, there is no way there can be very much long term debt. Repaying the debt with interest will take too many resources.
In fact, I don't think it is a coincidence that the current debt defaults came at a time in history when oil extraction has flattened. We now longer had the underly resources growing at the rate they needed, to keep up with the debt, plus interest. Admittedly, the poor judgment of many in the lending industry may have hastened the process, but it was just a matter of speeding up the inevitable.
When you equate credit with modernity, I presume you are only looking at very short term debt. Paying wages at the end of a two week period. Paying for goods after they arrive. I can imagine this continuing, but long term debt, and even monetary systems that depend on long term debt, have to be replaced by more appropriate systems to our new more-constricted resources.
Just a note on the data:
So it's probably not coincidence, but one needs to be careful about assigning causality.
In particular, note that oil production has been increasing for most of 2008. World oil supply is up 1.4Mb/d YTD 2008 vs. 2007 average (also via IEA data). Even with OPEC's just-announced cuts, it's still virtually certain that oil production in 2008 will be a fair amount higher than in 2007; with production data available through Sept, production would need to drop to ~80Mb/d for the final three months of the year to avoid an increase.
Accordingly, these debt defaults have predominantly happened while oil production was increasing. That doesn't mean oil can't be a cause, of course, but it is something that theories need to take into account.
Gross production is almost meaningless now. We care about energy for it's ability to do work. 86 mbpd does not equate to 86 mbpd of last year. It was important while a barrel equaled a barrel. Look at the marginal cost structures now, and disparate items that make up 'oil'. NGPL and ethanol have 60% of BTUs as crude, yet are counted the same. Tar sands get counted the same, yet no subtraction is taken from the natural gas figures, etc. Very little cheap stuff left, and that is what powered the globalization and extreme specialization (import substitution policies).
I can't prove the specifics on net energy (though some should try to), so in that sense it is an unprovable hypothesis, and therefore not science. But connect your own dots - I've been trying to here for 3 years and 99% of people still don't get it. Show me 10-20mbpd of new capacity that costs $10-15 a barrel to replace the 1000:1 EROI of Ghawar and other old depleting fields and I will (happily) change my mind.
Don't forget the relentless increase in population. Outside of major disaters this force is not going to go away. I seriously doubt that the increase in production for 2008 kept pace with world demand from population alone much less if you include any of the secondary issues such as EROEI and Export land etc. I say they are secondary because the primary drivers of the economy are population and resources. Maybe not secondary in magnitude but thats a different issue. No matter what we do we cannot escape from the population issue it will remain.
US population growth is a bit over 1% a year we have to grow our GDP at at least 1% just to stay level. With the changing demographics and baby boomers retiring we probably have to grow and additional 1% at least to provide for the increased elderly population.
Esp given the US medical and insurance system. Medical expenses will become a increasing burden on the system.
Sure everyone can get poorer every year not a problem but that does not stop the pressure from population growth nor its pent up demand.
By any metric available the world is a decidedly poorer place in 2008 vs 2007. Trillions have been lost and the demand has still increased and the amount of available energy per capita has decreased using any sensible accounting for EROEI and energy density.
Why guess? It's easy enough to check:
Population Growth: 1.2%
EIA Oil Supply Growth: 3.5% (July07 to July08) or 1.6% (2007 avg vs. 2008 YTD avg.) or 2.0% (Jan-Jul07 vs. Jan-Jul08).
Any of those are higher than the population growth rate, meaning that the increase in oil supply in the last year has more than kept up with population growth.
Pit I made a vow not to respond to you but in this case I must.
World population grows every year year end and year out. If in any given year the oil supply growth does not exceed the population growth you have a deficit to balance.
These people don't simply disappear in the years that oil production increases did not meet population growth you have to carry them forward.
Given that 2008 is not over yet lets wait till we see the end of the year we have every indication that production is now dropping rapidly.
In any case
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/oilproduction.html
2005 84,561.47
2006 84,521.21
2007 84,407.57
I'm happy to just call these flat so lets assume population increased in 2006 and 2007 by 1.2% this means to reach the same amount of oil per capita we need at least a 2.4% increase in oil production vs 2005.
Including the year of the increase we would need to see 3.6%
I stand by my argument I'd be surprised given this post
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4676
Its fairly obvious that the year will not end with a 3.6% increase megaprojects for 2009 is not looking promising although or deficit was shrunk this year it was not eliminated.
However if your serious about this you need to do a bit more work and work population vs oil supply back at least say ten years to get a good grasp on the current status of population vs oil supply.
For example 2004 was 83,104.80
So you had a 1.5% grow and thus 0.3% "extra" oil this year.
2000-2001 it went down.
The simple observation that peak production last time was in 2005 and we only finally broke it in 2008 is sufficient to suspect that oil production as not kept up with population growth.
Feel free to to work the problem correctly and get back with me.
Or cherry pick numbers to make your point.
I would not worry too much about year-to-year rises and falls, differences of a percent or two can easily be made up by more efficiency or waste. We have to look at the general trend.
And the general trend is that the amount of oil available per person peaked around 1980. Of course these figures are total oil production, not net available - but nobody's been able to produce net oil figures for the world yet.
The other thing to bear in mind is that the places with the largest population growth have actually seen the least growth in oil consumption. The biggest growth in consumption over the 1950-2005 period has come from the low population growth First World countries.
Yeah this is better but you should also bring in GDP growth each year vs population vs oil.
The problem is of course this conflates efficiency claims esp if you start looking at individual countries.
For example in the US we claim that the US has become much more efficient at using oil since the 1970's but this does not include the export of a lot of basic manufacturing overseas. And worse if you start looking at per person GDP growth or oil usage in the countries where manufacturing was exports the demographics tends to hide the truth.
Per capita oil consumption goes up but given that a lot of this is fueled by manufacturing for exports its not near as large a real growth in general wealth in the exporting countries.
Although the per capita oil usage peaked in 1980 the process was set in motion back in the 1970's with the move to pure fiat curriencies coupled with the peak of US production. It just took a bit for US production to decline and oil imports to increase and fiat currency inflation to become noticeable.
These are some of the underlying reasons we are seeing trends out to 100 years start peaking at the same time. The wheel where set in motion a long time ago. And as you showed the path we have chosen was firmly established by 1980.
A particular reason to look at the last few years however is that a tremendous amount of debt has been created to induce growth. In general the worlds GDP has been inflated by a moved into the financial world. So the GDP itself has been heavily inflated by growth in areas that at the end of the day actually remove money from more productive pursuits.
Whats really interesting is that the world does not even really try to compute what I'd call sustainable wealth. And easy metric would be the amount of personal savings in the bottom half of the worlds wage scale adjusted for inflation.
http://www.morganstanley.com/views/gef/archive/2007/20070604-Mon.html
What this fails to address is that most of this supposed global savings is concentrated int sovereign wealth funds and multi-national corporations.
You can question the real savings rate calculations easily.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/08/whats-behind-soaring-...
And further you can question the savings rate for third world countries.
http://www.dallasfed.org/research/eclett/2008/el0807.html
Given that most of the population of these third world countries barely participate in the modern banking system how can Morgan-Stanley talk about how much they have saved ?
http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2005/06/international-saving-comparisons.html
One thing I've not found is the actual spread of savings amongst the population in third world countries even though we have tons of information that the wealth is highly concentrated in the top 1%.
http://www.undp.org.cn/downloads/nhdr2005/06chapter2.pdf
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/rich-j22.shtml
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/unu-pss120106.php
No way we can talk about general GDP, oil usage and net savings without dealing with concentration of wealth. In fact in general it looks like overall all thats happened is that the exporting countries have created more extremely rich individuals.
And last but not least what has allowed this charade to continue ?
Assuming since 1980 the worlds gotten poorer outside of the top 1% whats happened ?
Why did we pull this off ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution
Turns out that fertilizer was probably the underlying reason for success.
As the world increased its work force by the billion these billions in general are focused on obtaining enough food. We have been highly successful in providing bread for the masses. Also another incredibly important factor thats overlooked in the time honored Roman tradition is the circus.
Not only did these super poor people get access to bread they where also submerged with American entertainment. Real increases in personal wealth amongst the poor was successfully replaced with dreams of personal wealth as seen on TV.
Often overlooked and ignored the combination of food and the modern remote circus ala TV and music and las the internet has resulted in people willingly playing by the rules expecting to get their SUV and McMansion any day. And although in many countries when people are interviewed they publicly decry the sex and violence they perceive through films in America we should probably assume that the reality is quite different and the flood of effectively porn into the third world has acted as a sedative to the masses encouraging them to dream of making it to the land flowing with sex.
The selling of real food and virtual sex to the world by the wealthy is probably and not unsurprisingly the real reason that the warped financial system has worked.
Nothing more then bread and circus's just like the Romans.
Of course as peoples lives really worsen in the sense that the food supply worsens I suspect they will reevaluate their warped view of the American Dream.
I could, but
(a) GDP is meaningless, and
(2) that would go beyond the scope of a comment on an article on a blog, with both comment and article disappearing into obscurity in a week or so.
The rest about savings and the like I consider not much of an issue. Money's just an abstraction, its twins purposes being to make trade easier and act as a store of value - two purposes which don't have to be in the same thing, but in this case are. But what is the purpose of trading and storing value? To give us better lives.
There are not a lot of measures of quality of life. The UN's HDI (Human Development Index) is made up of,
1/3 GDP per capita
1/3 longevity
1/3 education, which is 2/3 adult literacy and 1/3 tertiary enrolment
so even that measure brings in useless GDP, but the other 2/3 I think are a fair measure - if people in general live a long time and can read and write and have a few well-educated ones around them, then probably a lot of other things are going well for the country.
Most of the "super poor people" who actually benefited from the Green Revolution have never seen a television, so can't get any dreams from it. Rather, what they saw was in their own communities, some well-off individuals in homes with running water and electricity, meat eaten every day, cars and radios and so on.
And most of the countries with very poor people in them have always had these well-off individuals as examples, but they just assumed things had to be that way. But as democracy has spread, one of the things people have done with their free speech is to demand better lives.
K
a guest post on this would be most welcomed...
On what, exactly? Email me and let me know.
Perhaps true, but even C+C alone is up well over 1Mb/d since last year. Can you honestly say that those extra 1.2Mb/d of C+C are "fake"?
The fact that oil production honestly and truly grew in the last year isn't a challenge to the notion of peak oil, but it is a challenge to lazy and alarmist descriptions of it that keep mindlessly repeating the same tired, old "plateau since 2005" line.
Yes, there was a plateau, and this year it was broken; new facts require a new argument.
If that's the case, you might want to take a hard look at the quality of the argument you've been using. I mean that in all honesty - if you believe you have an important point to make and people don't believe you, it's almost always the case that either your argument is bad or your point is.
For example:
Of course they do; we're talking about peak oil, not peak energy. You're conflating two significantly different things, which not only undermines your argument for anyone who realizes that, it muddies the situation and confuses people who might actually agree with you.
It would probably be more effective if you clearly and explicitly separated "declining quantities of liquid fuel" from "declining quantities of available energy" as arguments. You may see them as being inextricably linked, but trying to explain everything at once is rarely the most effective approach.
Memmel's self-imposed ban on responding to you is well regarded within the context of this poor example of supposed facts and logic.
C+C being up 1.2 since last year, when there was a supposedly intentional 1mb/d reduction by the KSA is meaningless. What does it mean to restrict then un-restrict production? Nothing. It means nothing. That does not represent new supply in any way, shape or form. The discussion you are having is about increases in supply, not resumptions of previous production. If you are attempting to claim you don't understand this, then I call foul.
Oil production grew? By how much? A couple hundred thousand barrels over what was possible already in 2006 and 2007? You are claiming this is a considerable and significant change? Earlier this year, when challenged to do so, the best Aramco could do was 300,000/d of production. That's going to save the world how, exactly?
Your claim that the plateau was "broken" indicates you have no understanding of stats, logic, or both. A 1 or 2% range in production over three or four years capped by a rise over previous peak of around 1% is a "break out" from plateau? No. this is a new absolute peak in production. It is likely well behind 2005 peak in terms of BTUs, as pointed out above. It is not a break of the plateau. To claim that, you would need a rise that is statistically close to or over a standard deviation above the previous peak and have it last a number of years. One year of even a statistically meaningful new peak is nothing but a one-time jump if it does not persist. That is, an anomoly, at best.
Your's is a an assertion with no merit.
Cheers
He is not suggesting they are fake. Very clearly Nate has stated that he does not believe that EROEI is the same this year as last year or the year before. Thus 100 barrels extracted at a cost of 10 barrels in 2000 versus 100 barrels extracted at a cost of 11 in 2005 versus 100 barrels extracted at a cost of 12 in 2008 are not the same. (I am just making up numbers to show the form of the argument, not the specifics.)
Pitt
1)yes. More natural gas use would decrease net energy not 'net liquid fuels'
2)I have very much on my plate and should probably post 'comments' less so I can focus on posts.
3)You are correct. I try to put too many subjects in one paragraph/post. It is a fault of mine. There are those who can follow it and those that cannot. No matter how eloquent or articulate I become however, the general person will continue to think of things in dollar terms, hence Peak Oil, broadly construed, is an inflationary event, not one that places hard limits on non-energy discretionary economy and propels us along the net energy cliff. The 2 very real impacts IF a net energy cliff is close are 1)price of oil going up more than price of other things (less ability to buy oil) and 2)more and more production coming offline as producers refuse to lose money. I expect for a while, the government will still 'lose' money as an oil producer, even at EROI breaken, as most energy inputs are non-liquid fuel..
4)do you have an opinion on Dollar/Euro situation? Are people in Ireland concerned?
Considering that the orthodox view of the current crisis is that the problem is rooted in the boom not being founded in actual value or production (i.e. the increasing house prices that everyone relied on were based mostly in people's belief in perpetually increasing house prices), I need to see some evidence of causation before I'm willing to accept this statement.
Keep reading. Mid-conversation. Large problem. No easy answers.
I probably should have written more, about how I equate modernity with belief relationships--which is made possible by credit. I am using the word credit more broadly. I am using the word credit to refer to any economic relationship that extends over time, and allows for economic behavior to be guided into the future. Crude oil futures curves, 25 year commercial construction loans, student loans, the ownership of fixed income securities by charitable trusts, and universities, and pension funds. Everything from letters of credit that allow for goods to be shipped over oceans, to commercial paper that allows a bread company to meet payroll before they have sold the requisite number of loaves. All of that defines modernity to me. The places that we can visit in the world that have none of these things are not modern. And I would neither want to live in those places, nor would I want to revert to them. So my view is that credit--from Latin, credere, to believe--is what makes modernity possible.
Of course, all ingenious inventions can be degraded, abused, contorted. And oh man, did we ever just commit such atrocities upon the modern credit system. For, it seems that every time humanity finds a way to secure itself a surplus through efficiency or other inventions of productivity, it never knows how to store the surplus. And those put in charge of managing the surplus tend to blow it.
Cheers,
G
I'm coming round to Gails view on this one because if you think about it we are shortly to experience the mother of all 'Black Swan' events (if you believe in PO). All the current debt structure is based around the future being pretty much as is. We saw what what happended in the financial markets when suddenly things where not what people expected -how much worse will it be when people begin to realize that the very future that enables debt to exist in its present form is taken away?
I'm not a Bond expert but it seems to me that Long Term debt is about to go through the roof. I'm not sure what shorter term debt will do -anyone?
Regards, Nick.
Yes. The current hiding places, USD cash and USD treasuries, and JPY cash, are the next places where the Grim Reaper will come for his pound of flesh. Flows back into JPY and USD are of course temporary covering flows. Those flows are being conducted by those who control a ton of capital either in hedge funds or corporations. In other words, we don't have to wait for individuals to buy back into the USD and JPY, because it's the large stewards of capital who are doing it for them. The USD and US treasury bonds are being bought now at the highest prices either as short-covering or as flight to safety. These too are capitulation trades. They are the opposite side of the selling of assets.
Only those currencies backed by strong balance sheets will survive. The Australian and Canadian Dollars, The Chinese Yuan, The Swiss Franc. The USD and the JPY are garbage currencies, with soaring debt to GDP ratios behind them. They are frankly abused currencies, and they will be trashed once the world is done with them. On balance, I think the EUR will actually come out of this OK. But, I am not as sure about that. It's also possible that oil will get some currency flows.
The key idea here is that a short-covering mania into JPY and USD, and the flight to safety in T-bills at a time when they are being printed into oblivion, are foghorn type warnings that a new phase will unfold afterwards. I would sort of liken it to the tide going out right before the Tsunami hits. You know, you get that strange sucking of the water away from land way, way out. Then comes the major move.
When money leaves the US treasury bond market, it will make the current liquidation from equity markets look like small beer.
I don't look forward to it.
G
According to the rough estimates of the Global Footprint Network, Australia has a biocapacity of 12.4 ha/capita and a footprint of 6.6 ha/capita, Canada a biocapacity of 14.5 ha/capita and a footprint of 7.6 ha/capita.
So there may be more opportunity to pursue a sustainable export economy to back up the CA$ and A$ than for currencies of biocapacity deficit nations like Japan, the US, and China.
They call anything with living organisms in it "biologically active land." So that both images below are part of our counted "biocapacity".
While both are biocapacity, they're not equal in terms of being able to produce what we humans use in our day-to-day lives. But 1 million hectares of the Mallee are counted as the same as 1 million hectares of Queensland rainforest.
Much of Australia is actually savannah or desert, and even the "good" agricultural land has just a few inches of good soil. It's only been kept highly productive agriculturally by large inputs of energy (in fertiliser, pesticides, etc) and water (rice growing the savannah region of the Mallee).
So really Australia has less than 12.4ha pc it can use. This puts the "biocapacity" deficit countries like Japan - with 67% forest cover compared to Australia's 20% - into perspective. A comparison of biocapacity in area per person makes Japan look bad, and Australia good.
But a comparison of actual biocapacity - the total amount of living things - makes Australia look worse off than Japan. Australia's biocapacity is a lot more fragile than Japan's.
A networked system which is already under some tension is very vulnerable to extra tension. Much of our land is already marginal, a bit of climate change, and...
Please don't burst my bubble Kiashu. *hands over ears* La...la...la...not listening....la...la...la.
Well, we can improve our biocapacity. You know, plant trees and stuff. But we're hacking into it rather than trying to build it up.
Like old Japan, those guys with their 67% forest cover, they produce all the timber they need for building and furniture and so on. Most of the timber they import is for paper products. They've built up the biocapacity of their land, at the expense of that in Australia and Malaysia.
So we talk about a "biocapacity trade deficit" - well, in the case of biocapacity, you want to import more than you export! That builds your place up. Japan gets cut off from the world for some reason, okay they have less advertising fliers printed, big deal. They can still build stuff.
But nobody has to have any biocapacity trade deficit or surplus, yet can still build their own country's up. There are things we can do. We're just not doing them. We're a mining country - and one thing we mine is the fertility of the soil. Which isn't much to begin with.
I am not suggesting that Oz has sane policy ... but that at the balance between resource base and population in Oz, there is every chance of doing well if a sane policy is adopted.
And regarding:
... no, Japan gets cut off from the world for whatever reason, there is a loss in population as people starve. 67% forest cover amounting to 0.05 hectares per person ... that's 500 m^2. 20% forest cover ... heck, 10% forest cover amounting to 3.8 ha/capita is 38,000m^2.
I don't see why Japan would starve. Perhaps you are imagining that forests get in the way of food production? That's what Haiti thought, so they cut them all down and are now eating mud.
Japan is the ninth largest rice producer in the world, they have 2.3 million farmers with an average farm size of 0.8 hectares; most of those farmers use machines and are only farmers part-time. In a crisis situation with Japan cut off those machines wouldn't be fuelled, but many of their other jobs would disappear and they could work full-time with manual labour.
Japan's population is flat and expected to decline (to 95 million by 2050), so they only have to feed 127.4 million people, no more.
They produce 10.97 million tonnes of rice annually, and consume 8.7 million tonnes. Their 10.97 million tonnes produced are enough to supply them with 86kg each annually, which is 825 calories daily.
While this is well short of the 2,000 required, Japan does produce other food. For example, they harvest 4.8 million tonnes of fish (1.38 million tonnes) just from mariculture and aquaculture) annually, or 37.6kg each annually, which adds another 500 calories. And of course they produce 8.25 million tonnes of cow milk, 2.9 million tonnes of potatoes, and so on and so forth.
Like all developed countries, if cut off from fossil fuels overnight they'd have a very hard time with their agriculture. But absent a global war, that's very unlikely. Really agricultural production follows a formula,
Labour x technology x biocapacity = production
If your technology disappears, so long as your biocapacity is strong and you have plenty of labour, you won't starve. It's countries like Australia with relatively low biocapacity, and that threatened by climate change, that would be most in trouble - knock off the technology, and all we're left with is labour.
Which doesn't mean I think we'll starve, either. But I do think that we'd have a harder time than Japan, simply because whatever the Ecological Footprint statistics say, they have greater biocapacity in their country.
On the other hand, if the Japanese find themselves without electricity for all their electronic gadgets then we could see a Japan Armageddon :)
20% forest cover on 7.692m km^2 for 20m would be 7.7 hectares per person versus 67% forest cover on 0.378m km^2 for 127m would be 0.051 hectares/person.
That is not to say that Australia has the water resources to sustainably support a substantially larger population, but the land mass itself of 38.4 hectares per capita means that Australia has opportunities in terms of per capita harvest of solar and wind resource that far exceeds the opportunities of either the immediate neighborhood to the north or further abroad in the East Pacific Rim.
But they both might be:
http://sustainablog.org/2008/10/23/24-african-countries-double-their-yie...
Bill Mollison - Dry Land Permaculture Strategies 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W15RRvKyJSk
Bill Mollison - Dry Land Permaculture Strategies 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIelsCmdTA8
Bill Mollison - Dry Land Permaculture Strategies 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGotaEnwqic
Also look for Bill Mollison, Globabl Gardener - Dry Lands for download, if you're of a mind.
Permaculture in Action - Greening The Desert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S6kTlz6Mk4
Cheer
Yes, I said somewhere else in the thread that we can build up our biocapacity.
But we're not doing it, and there's no sign we will be any time soon. I mean, look at the Murray-Darling...
As for Greening the Desert, that's a remarkable project, with remarkable results. But... once Geoff Lawton took off, the project was abandoned. The desert has gone back to being desert.
I'd love to see these things happen everywhere. "Permaculture" is the first word of the subtitle of my blog, after all. But it seems it's not easy for them to happen, and harder still for them to keep on under their own energy once they're going.
Either way, for the immediate future Australia has a large area of biocapacity, but it's very shallow in depth, and overall very fragile.
And over the long term, the quality of life will be substantially better if the transition from the current policy regime takes place in ten rather than twenty years, and better still if it takes place in five.
Relative to Japan, however, Australia is quite well positioned, insane current policy stance and all.
Jared Diamond disagrees with the conclusion in your last paragraph. According to Diamond (in his famous book, "Collapse") Australia is one of the most vulnerable to collapse of all high-income nations. Australia has a fragile ecosystem.
Japan will have to import food and energy, no matter what. On the other hand, the big role of nuclear power in generating Japan's electricity is a big plus facture for Japan. Finally, Japan has an unsurpassed reputation for producing industrial goods of high quality.
Under what circumstances would Japan be "cut off" from imports and exports?
That is a question to pose to Kiashu, it is his argument that due to having 67% forest cover, Japan could continue to build if cut off from imports and exports.
What kind of plausible scenario can anyone build in which Japan is cut off from imports and exports? The only one I can think of is World War III in which there are all-out thermonuclear exchanges between Russia and the U.S. IMO, such a World War III scenario is highly unlikely--maybe one chance in five hundred. Fifty years ago I thought there was a fifty-fifty chance of such a war, but the world has changed a great deal during the past fifty years--in some ways much for the better.
I read it as a statement regarding Japan's potential self-sufficiency, not a statement regarding a likely event. Since you claim that:
... you seem to be agreeing with me and disputing Kiashu, who said:
...
In Collapse Diamond had a lot to say about Japan and their forest situation as well. In essence Japan now has extensive forests because they use other countries timber rather than their own. It isn't really a sustainable practice because the needs of Japan outstrip their capacity as well.
Australia overall can be pretty much self-sustaining in terms of crops and mineral resources but not oil. Of course, crops can be renewable but mineral resources are finite. This self-sustaining capability is on the proviso that we actually apply some decent sustainability principles rather than the some of the quasi-sustainbility practices we have in place now. (Gunns - I am talking about you.) A lot of our excessive farming practices in the past had to do with crops and animals for export.
At times I am both despondant and joyed at the progress of Australian land use practices. At this stage I am firmly in the category of 'watch this space' and hedging my bets to whether we are actually headed in the right direction. :)
I don't know whether if I was Japan I would be putting my trust into nuclear power. A highly seismic environment and little ability to store nuclear waste will eventually come back to bite them in the long term. Far better for them to take stock in something more mundane but less risky like tidal power.
Of course, this is self-sustaining at the current footprint per capita ... given an overly car-dependent transport system, ample opportunity to shift the transport system to a more sustainable level, and with excessive sprawl development, ample opportunity to shift the settlement system to a more sustainable level.
Horne's "run by second rate people who share its luck" syndrome continues in full force, so the biocapacity will be less per capita in another ten years than now, and the longer before policy is reversed, the more materially frugal a sustainable living standard will be ... but compared to China, Japan or even, as long as the food distribution system is so heavily dependent on truck freight, the US, Oz has substantially more leeway to muddle through.
Gregor: Very eloquent. The current situation re the USD reminds me of the housing bubble in that you know it will reverse drastically but you don't know when.
Well put. As of Thursday evening, the US Treasury had issued $559 billion in special Treasury bills and notes to accomadate panic levels of demand. While an argument could be made that new Federal Reserve money is going in a circular path back to finance the Treasury, it is not a closed loop. In other words the Treasury is sucking in a great amount of the world's wealth recently. But before long when the panic wave of dollar buying is over, 1% interest rates earned on a currency that is about to hyperinflate its money supply won't be very appealing.
All the while the money stays ties up in Treasury, it is not being invested in companies around teh world.
So yes, this the tide going out before the tsunami. One can only wonder what will happen when that wave crashes and destroys the financial structures built upon dollars.
It is too early to tell where the dollar is going to wind up. With all goods falling to 'pawn shop' levels of value, it is hard to see anything of value left for the dollar to reflect.
You'll be able to pick up a Picasso for a song ... can you sing?
Fortunately, confinement of dollars to the corridors of finance keeps them from fueling inflation and the instant reaction of spiraling interest rates.
Unfortunately, confinement of dollars to the corridors of finance keeps them out of the hands of the people in the real world, where they might be turned to productive use.
I'm not sure I can explain this so that it is clear to others, but I feel you have edged towards my core response to the article: I see no limit based on the slowest link. A failure is a failure is a failure. It doesn't matter the nature of the link, only that it is necessary. I.e., it's not an issue of weakest links, but of being irreplaceable.
Credit is irreplaceable. Spending is irreplaceable. Growth is irreplaceable. Trust is irreplaceable. Etc.
It doesn't matter what fails, only that something does.
Cheers
Except that savings is not a pool. When:
Investment + Debt-financed consumption + (Trade Surplus) + (Government Budget Deficit) is bigger than 0, there is net saving in that period.
That saving is the accumulation of the promises from going concerns financing the investment, and the promises from consumers financing the consumption, and the promises from the Rest Of the World (ROW), financing the ROW trade deficit, plus the promises from the government created when government spends that were not in turn extinguished by tax receipts.
The "pool of savings" is an accumulated pile of promises.
When the evolution of the economy means that those who have made promises are more and more able to make good on them, that is increasing financial robustness.
When the evolution of the economy means that those who have made promises are less and less able to make good on them, that is increasing financial fragility.
Stochastic risks are readily taken into account in fancy financial modelling, because stochastic risks are being realized at an ongoing rate. But systemic risks tend to be realized in clumps.
At the turn of the Century, the US adopted a policy of experimenting with whether firms chasing returns on a time frame of a quarter or quicker would find ways to systematically under-rate systemic risks and so take out as income what should have been retained as prudential reserves ... essentially, stripping buffers out of the system.
CDO's were not regulated, CDS's were removed from regulation by any federal authority and could only be regulated by state authority if they represented actual insurable risks ... that is, only the least problematic of CDS's could be regulated, not the creation of CDS's and their acquisition by those without an actual risk exposure, which allows CDS's to be created that are many multiples of the actual asset at risk of default.
Indeed, in addition to the above essay, should be added systemic risk concentration and systemic risk amplification.
"Trash" tranches of CDO's represent a concentration of systemic risk, by the nature of the junior/senior preference on claims of income from mortgages. But the demand was for investment-grade rated CDO's. So they built CDO's OUT OF CDO's, "second tier" CDO's that use the same Senior/Junior preference claim system to generate "investment grade" quality CDO's out of a pile of trash-grade CDO's. It was financial magic that worked precisely by systematically under-estimating systemic risk, so that the concentration of systemic risk meant that the quality of the supposed investment grade seoncd-tier CDO's were not in fact investment grade.
And then sometimes a third tier was built from the trash from second tier CDO's. Where in case of a "unexpected" (but quite widely anticipated) across the board increase in mortgage default rates, the senior tranches in the third tier would be senior preference claims on zero money flowing in. Oops.
And the lack of requirement for an insurable interest to hold CDS's meant that rather than regular insurance that shifts exposure to default, the by-law-unregulated naked CDS's could multiply the exposure to default.
And both were happening at the same time, so that institutions that were supposedly holding all investment grade assets, but in reality were holding a large quantity of chickenshit assets, could have their hidden risk of default multiplied by people taking bets on whether or not they would default. And since CDS's are not regulated as insurance, so there is no requirement that issuers actually have a balance sheet that would be able to cover total CDS exposure even in normal financial conditions.
So strip out storage buffers, add network interconnections, and add failure amplifiers to the system. Its like you start with the diary's network system and then add a process that generates network traffic to attempt to notify everybody that there is a network problem, creating an internally-generated denial of service attack.
IOW, we were creating a system encouraging promises to be made that could not be kept. Once we allowed that, the other side of the liabilities would show up somewhere as savings that people thought they were holding even though the promises were on shaky ground.
Blaming the pool of savings for the problem is like blaming the thermometer for a high fever.
Ecology studies what makes interconnected systems prone to collapse or resilient ... its not like any of this is a mystery. It was just in the short term interests of those handing out as income what should have been prudential reserves and pretending that high yield junk assets were high yield investment grade assets to turn a blind eye and replace what we know about how systems work with market-faith ideology.
Ouch. So true. The more I delve into it, the more I tremble in fear. And you know what really hurts? It wasn't an accident. The people who did this are not idiots. Some of them did the best they could to minimise risk, but ultimately they weren't paid to minimise risk - they were paid to maximise profit and HIDE risk.
aeldric.
The problem here lies in conflating cultural exchange with trade. In this era of the internet there is no reason - so long as the internet functions and is generally available - that cultural exchange might continue while localization ends much of global trade.
Cheers
There is a second problem here in conflating trade and flows of wealth.
The Bretton Woods system that preceded the Washington Consensus financial globalisation system saw substantial growth in trade ... and, with systems in place that limited flows of financial wealth in place.
What changed was not the growth in trade, but the growth in financial flows. For "major" currencies, it is normal for more than 90% of balance of payments transactions to occur in the capital accounts.
The term "trade" also conflates trade between different parties, and "trade" with the same party on both sides ... flow of work in progress between subsidiaries of the same corporation. An advantage of trade in terms of economic networks is the ability of trade partners to take a "hands off" attitude to the politics of the other country, with an event disrupting supply in one country leading trade partners to other producers in other countries. However, if the production process is integrated across national boundaries ... which requires foreign direct investment which hinges on financial globalisation ... that "hands off" attitude is no longer an option, and the transnational corporation interferes with political events across multiple nations.
"I am very pro-globalization and have been since I was a teenager and attended an international school and felt the liberation that comes from getting one foot out of my culture."
I think you are confusing globalization; the theory that all economic activity should take place in the physical location which provides the lowest financial costs and greatest ROI, with multiculturalism; the practice of mingling many different cultural groups together and cross-fertilising food, culture and language.
London, I am told, is a good example of a globalised non-multicultural city. Although many cultural groups exists, they do tend to remain static in various fixed enclaves in the city (West Indians, Central Asians, etc etc).
Excellent as usual Nate. Missed you at Charlie Hall's meeting in Syracuse. Had hoped to meet you in person!
Personally I suspect the whole system will crash and we will need to reboot. On what, I'm not sure unless we can isolate and maintain a critical core of energy production and knowledge for the next go-around. But we need to learn all we can from this dynamic, and understanding the relationship between energy, work, and the real economy is vital. Maybe next time we will do a better job.
George
Question Everything
Human nature means that next go round we will screw it up again except we will do it differently.
Nate,
I agree with everything you say except for the statement that economics is fatally flawed. Conventional economic ideas are always fatally flawed, because they are always fighting the last war, just as military conventional wisdom is so often flawed because of fighting the last war instead of the current one.
Keynesian economics was radically new in the 1930s, but it was right for the 1930s, while all the classical economics that ruled in 1930 was fatally flawed. Keynes explicitly recognized that his economic recommendations applied specifically to the Great Depression problems and might not be useful in other situations. Well, as Milton Friedman said, "We are all Keynesians now." Indeed we are, and this tends to limit our thinking and steer us away from steady-state economics.
But what you are doing (ecological economics) is still economics. It still looks at scarcity as the foundation of economics, and each and every one of the basic economic ideas apply: Opportunity cost, the production possibility frontier, supply and demand, aggregate supply and demand, the need to account for externalities (preferably with a market-based solution), market failures, including monopoly and asymmetric information.
Thus there is a lot of validity in conventional economics, just as Keynes used a lot of classical economics in his thinking. I came to accept steady-state economics some thirty years ago: My thinking then and now has come from a grounding in conventional economics.
Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
And what were the thoughts of Keynes and Friedman on financial fraud-did they feel there should be penalties or should the perpetrators be elevated to positions of high importance? IMO until the tolerance for financial fraud lessens the whole situation is going to get a lot worse-just yesterday Taiwan publicly called Moodys et al a bunch of criminals-the USA can let the grifters run the country but they cannot force the entire world to finance it forever.
Both Keynes and Friedman believed in laws against financial fraud and strict enforcement of these laws. Offhand, I can't think of a single notable economist who has ever said that we do not need firm government enforcement of laws against fraud. Fraud is a market failure, sort of a negative externality, and as such is loathsome to economists.
Even Milton Friedman, who favored minimal government regulation, emphatically endorsed laws against force and fraud; minimal regulation most certainly does not mean no regulation.
Then it is too bad those guys aren't running things right now because the tolerance for high level financial fraud is unprecedented IMO.
Those guys are all dead. Keynes said that we are all ruled by the scribbling of some defunct economist.
Economists never rule. They advise. Typically those in power never listen when economists tell them to raise taxes or to cut spending, hence the long-term inflationary bias that we have seen since 1913.
For at least the past forty years, hundreds of notable economists have urged the U.S. government to put a stiff tax on gasoline because of its negative externalities. All economists recognize externalities and want to get rid of them, because externalities create inefficiency, and economists (except maybe Herbert Simon and Joseph Schumpeter, two of my favorites) hate inefficiency with a fierce passion.
If you want to stop white collar crime at the highest levels, you have to fit the punishment to the crime. Locking up a criminal in a blue collar prison for stealing $200 from a liquor store is not the same as a white collar criminal stealing several million dollars. We have a progressive income tax system in America. Perhaps it is time to have a progressive punishment system as well based on the dollar amount of the crime. A million dollar crime should get you 20 years in prison. A ten million dollar crime should get you life. We also need to come to grips with two levels of incarceration, at least in America. Putting a white collar criminal in a "minimum security facility", also know as a county club prison, is just plain stupid. The damage they do to society is far worse than what blue collar criminals do.
Why should those who commit financial crimes at the highest levels care? The risk to profit ratio looks pretty good from where I stand.
Our inability to deal with high end, white collar crime is the primary reason the world's economy is in free fall. Locking up for life, several thousands of the worst white collar criminals over the last twenty years, those who stole (it's not fraud, it's stealing) the largest amounts of money would have prevented this. Focusing on high end, white collar crime would have forced us to pass more laws we desperately needed to keep pace with our evolving, complex economies. Instead, we chose to grab onto the gravy train and pretend all was well.
The money we needed to help alleviate peak oil, global warming, and famine is simply no longer available. The world's economy will not recover in time. Systems needed to maintain our standard of living will begin to fail. Not so much because of interconnectivity as due to a lack of money to maintain them. Now, my biggest fear is a worldwide pandemic.
We treat a corporation as a legal person when its to the advantage of the corporation ... but refuse to "incarcerate" it when it commits a crime that brings jail time.
Establish a corporate jail ... freeze shareholdings, put the corporation under administration for the length of the jail sentence, and retain any net earnings to compensate the victims.
If Corporations were on the hook for things that were not the fault of individuals, we would see far more vigorous prosecution of white collar criminals driven by corporations wanting to avoid it being a corporate act.
I have written elsewhere that pandemic is now a very real concern. With economic chaos raging and employment uncertain, will people still kill every chicken the next time there is an outbreak of Bird flu? Will MDR TB still be ruthlessly treated with very expensive drug cocktails?
Historically, disease and war have always ridden with famine and death when apocalypse prevailed. For a few brief decades we fought disease to a draw, and we thought the horseman was defeated. Not so.
aeldric
Don - first of all, I do not subscribe to everything about ecological economics, even though its where my phd program resides. They have gone too far in putting $ values on nature and not far enough exploring human nature and our evolved demand mechanisms. In fact, EE is being slowly subsumed by cognitive neuroscience, evolutionary psychology, and even conventional economics, which are all painting a picture that man as rational actor is the exception not the rule.
Economics plain and simple, is human behavioural ecology applied to a large population that had access to a perceived unlimited energy supply. The 'economic concepts' of value within economics that you point out are more psychological and behavioural than economic. Economics applied to an era of human behaviour when the planet was empty and there were few planetary resource limitations. What will replace it might contain some of the economic 'rules' (e.g. comparative advantage), but will fall under a biology/natural science umbrella.
Agree that economics has some useful observations about human behavior some of the time. But most economic concepts are either based on tautologies (utility is that which is preferred which is utility) and conflated understanding of wide boundary correlation causation. The main difference between walrasian welfare economics and ecological economics is the latter assumes the human system is embedded in a larger system, where the former assumes the environment is part of the human economic system. On that point, I am 100% in agreement with the ecological economists..
Hey Nate, I caught this part in particular: "They have gone too far in putting $ values on nature"
This has been my main beef with Ecological Economics, but my sense (coming largely outside of the academic discussions within the field) is that this is also controversial.
Perhaps given that we are seeing how trillions of dollars can be instantly created by central banks while nature is continually liquidated will lead to further questioning of the validity of assigning U.S. Federal Reserve Note values on what I would argue is actually priceless, i.e., a planet that can reliably sustain thriving populations of organisms that emergently regulate and dampen extremes in the cycles of water, climate and biogeochemical flows.
Does anyone feel like shorting the planet?
Odum describes the flow of money as one of the control feedbacks on production. That the system as a whole has now destroyed the control loop - the implications are hard to wrap my brain around.
I do think - but cannot prove - that the net energy argument is right on target. Declining returns. Isn't that also Jay Hanson's argument? (Plus the biology.)
cfm in Gray, ME
Dollar values on their own are for situations where the various costs and benefits are at the same level of priority.
But, evidently, the "ecosystem services" that are required for the survival of a society must be available in order for the allocation rules in a society, whatever they may be, to have any relevance.
Putting dollar values on "ecosystem services" presumes that they are at the same level of priority as other economic costs and benefits. Now, that may seem to be an improvement over putting them at lower priority, but it is clearly not good enough. Where they are essential to survival of a society, a sane society must place their preservation at a higher priority than dollar valuations.
A first step in that direction is the principle of strong sustainability ... but if we have already overshot, even the principle of strong sustainability may understate the priority of halting and reversing ecosystem degradation.
Jason you're right on target. Others, too, have postulated that at least certain natural resources, most profoundly oil, will eventually be acknowledged as priceless. It is as if, at some point, humanity becomes a tribe in which there's only so much magic dust, for every human being to go around. So much peak oil commentary reaches out haltingly, tentatively, for a way to allocate resources transcending--or predating--price and economics. It's like, oh no, we've just discovered a relatively standalone, self-regulating pricing system won't keep us warm and fed properly; and now warmth and satiety must be negotiated or legislated. People can see we don't have an indefinite, much less infinite, supply of the magic fluid from beneath the earth. And so we might as well regard the trillion or so barrels that remain as lying exposed above the surface, say, in a big pot. Who gets to stick in their straws for how much and--as important as anything--when? Yipes.
Note that Walrasian welfare economics is invalid in its own terms ... Walrasian General Equilibrium analysis was shown to be a dead end in the 1970's, utility theory has been known to be invalid as a scientific theory of human behavior since before WWII ... many would say since before WWI ... and despite rationalizations that for predictive purposes it is OK if things work "as if" the utility model was valid, welfare implications of utilitarian marginal analysis requires that the model be an accurate model of human preferences.
So its not necessary to look for reasons to prefer something to Walrasian welfare economics, since Walrasian welfare economics are not valid social science.
Keynes of course said that his recommendations during the Great Depression were for the problems of the Great Depression, but he also argued that his theory of money, employment and interest was a General theory.
The real flaw was in the effort after the war (and Keynes' death) to try to negotiate a cease-fire inside economics departments with a bastard child of General Theory macroeconomics and marginalist microeconomics. That is what gave us the post-war Samuelsonian hydraulic Keynesian economics.
But while the General Theory makes no assumption about natural resources, and can certainly be applied to economies facing serious natural resource constraints, hydraulic Keynesian models tacitly assume unlimited resources, so the "Keynesian policy" stereotypes that people pick up are fatally flawed ... and indeed, that is a big reason why bastard Keynesian/marginalist economics fell over in a heap in the face of the first two Oil Price Shocks.
Marginalist economics must take the viability of the economic system for granted in its analysis, because system viability is not something that can be ensured by marginal optimizations. And any marginal optimization must occur within a given system, so the marginalist economics must also take for granted "the system that we should have".
Therefore, when faced with fundamental questions of economic development and survival of an economy, marginalist economics can only address secondary issues, and is incapable of addressing the main issues.
However, that does not mean that "economics" generically is fatally flawed ... while marginalist economics define economics as applying marginal analysis to a problem, if we define economics as the study of the material provisioning of society, there are a range of approaches to the understanding of economics that provide a line of attack on big questions of economic development and economic survival.
Recall Keynes's short article "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren." He ASSUMED a stable population and ASSUMED that technological advances would continue to enable real economic growth per capita of 2% annualy for about 108 years (eight doublings) from 1930. Now if his assumptions had been true, then his conclusion--that the economic problem of scarcity was solvable in principle--would have been true also.
But Keynes wrote in a world of two billion people enjoying the bounty of cheap and abundant oil. Technology, especially energy technology, has not improved at a rate of 2% per year past the nineteen sixties. (I'm measuring technological advances as Solow does, i.e. as a residual to account for growth that is not accounted for by other factors. However, Solow never worried about Peak Oil.) We had solar energy in the nineteen sixties; we had nuclear energy then, and except for more efficient wind turbines and cheaper solar panels and somewhat more efficient batteries, we have made little progress since the nineteen sixties in energy technology. Keynes never dreamt in his worst nightmares of the Green Revolution and the consequent explosion of the world's population. Nor did he think that oil was a limiting factor to growth, just as limitations in coal production did not halt nineteenth century economic growth. With an undergratuate education in Medieval Latin literature, Keynes never had much interest in engineering or hard sciences such as physics, chemistry, and geology.
To a large extent, for all of us, we are prisoners of our own time, of our own experiences. Keynes's idea that poverty might be eliminated was--in my opinion--correct. But we're not going to be able to rely on economic growth for progress against poverty in the future.
Economic growth is no longer the solution to our problems. It is the problem. (along with population growth)
They were assumptions that he made when he wrote that piece. But, unlike the Samuelsonian theory that is was people normally meant by "Keynesian Economics" in the US after WWII, his General Theory analysis does not require those assumptions.
Keynes was horrified of the settlement terms after WW1, and could see the chaos os this strategy.
He was right of course.
A letter from Keynes to FDR:
Economist Arnold Kling's opinion:
Quoted in Intellectual honesty: how much do we know?
Nate,
According to my spreadsheet, 2006 was the maximum BTU at 23,883 trillion. To me, it looks like a 'rolling plateau' for the last few years. More troubling, the average million BTU per ton is dropping with 2007 being the lowest at 20.5.
Sources:
Coal
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0702.html
BTU per ton:
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/coalvswind/brief_coal.html
Of course, a change on the BTU per ton on any type could greatly change things.
Your "a small door for a whole lot of elephants" is a good way to describe the debt pickle we are getting into. A huge table of dominoes has been slowly laid out over the years and the first few are falling.
Historically, we are here:
This mountain of debt will never be all paid back with interest without some kind of severe dislocation in the economy or the structure of the economy.
The relatively insignificant stock market margin debt unwind of 2000-2003, which fueled the bear market then, pales in comparison to the unwind that is beginning. Not only is there much more stock market margin debt this time, it is all mixed in with all the other debt, which is much more massive and all in high distress this time.
The last Great Debt Unwind was, of course the Great Depression. The upcoming Great Unwind may well be something different. Such a different thing is being discussed in high circles. Following the Biblical Israeli practice of Jubilee (cancelling all debt every 50 years) a new debt free world was discussed by Jubilee South clear back in 2005 when all was peaceful in Debt World. I suspect this Jubilee thing will be getting more attention as the elephants really begin running at the small door.
Where did you get your data?
I would love to see that graph extended to sometime before the crash of 1873.
interesting
does anybody have a graph of that US coal production in gross BTU's
Boris
London