56 comments on Prepping for a Repeat of 2006/2007?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
56 comments on Prepping for a Repeat of 2006/2007?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- What "Lower Consumption" Means
- Tricking and Treating the Future
- Meeting Energy Decline Part-Way - Potatoes?
TOD:Europe
- The Future of Nuclear Energy: Facts and Fiction - Part IV: Energy from Breeder Reactors and from Fusion?
- The US stimulus and "green jobs"
- EROWI - energy return of water invested
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Saturday 7th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 30th October 2009
- Details of Solar Flagships Released
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“Data always beats theories. 'Look at data three times and then come to a conclusion,' versus 'coming to a conclusion and searching for
some data.' The former will win every time.”
—Matthew Simmons, ASPO-USA conference, Boston, MA, October 26, 2006
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
I agree 100%
Obviously I agree that the demand curve shifted as the housing industry destructed this is demand that will not return in the foreseeable future.
For all kinds of reasons this is very much a one off event. Surprisingly is one of the few large industries that we really don't have to have.
Other forms of demand may have declined with high prices but its sensible that low prices will spur demand that was simply suppressed because of price alone.
Demand destruction i.e a downward shift in the demand curve for individuals is difficult to prove as long as those individuals have jobs. Its safe to say that a steady increase in unemployment numbers represents a aggregate shift of the demand curve downwards that insensitive to the price of oil. Just like my demand for a new Ferraris remains zero even if they slashed the price by 50% or a crappy house in CA for that matter. Increasing rates of unemployment is one of the few ways that demand for gasoline absolutely drops regardless of price.
Short of dropping quickly into and all out full blown depression its difficult to come up with another major shift in the demand curve as what occurred with the demise of the housing industry.
As and example the other big bubble of the past decades is agricultural land prices as this bubble is probably popping with a vengeance right now. Does it lead to a shift in the demand curve for oil ? Well probably eventually since land is used as collateral for loans to plant at some point crops grown will decline and the demand for oil from agricultural will decline but a big driver in this would be if oil prices continued to increase increasing planting costs faster then agricultural land prices collapsed. So probably its a combination of both that would cause this industry to use less oil but its highly doubtful it will result in low oil prices.
You can do the same for the airline industry or practically any industry you pick and its doubtful that low oil prices are the outcome.
The one case that stands out that stand out remains a fast depressionary collapse and I'd argue that high oil prices are better than this solution at first glance.
Given the willingness of the Central Banks to intervene in the economy and the fact that the populace has no problem taking on tremendous debt that will never be repaid I'd argue that instead of a fast collapse primarily from the financial industry collapsing we instead will see oil prices rebound and go ever higher and the feds keep attempting to pump the economy only slowing the collapse rate and building a ever larger mountain of debt. High oil prices will pay a key role in grinding down the economy and indirectly lead to ever higher unemployment making ever greater economic intervention required.
This is the slow route but slow is relative a fast financial collapse if it was to occur is probably less than a year away will a slow collapse with high oil prices allow the economy to collapse over a period of 4-5 years with the debt load eventually leading to a financial collapse not seen in modern times.
Since peak oil is not recognized by the mainstream everyone seems to have chosen option 2 under the believe that we can successfully inflate our way out of this somehow.
Probably overall a fast financial collapse now is probably the best long term solution since it leaves most of the system intact and the resource base in place to do something different. And GW, peak oil, overpopulation fiat currencies etc all the ills of today's societies arguable could be reviewed and we could probably even do something about it. The second road of continually pushing the economy only to have oil collapse it leaves us with less in my opinion.
"Given the willingness of the Central Banks to intervene in the economy and the fact that the populace has no problem taking on tremendous debt..."
Populace may be willing but does populace have the money to loan? Or will we be depending on rest of world to loan us the money? Will they keep that up at current rate? Remember we've a war or two or three to fight and we plan to cut taxes. (At least so the candidates say.)
In the US, the Government has essentially agreed to buy bad debts. At present, the debt holders seem to be investing in short-term treasuries, i.e., lending the money back to the Government, because of the general attitude of fear in the credit markets. Thus rates on short-term treasuries are extremely low. It will be interesting to see what happens to these rates when they want to take the money out and lend it to someone else. Then we'll find who has money that they are willing to loan to the feds.