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222 comments on DrumBeat: November 20, 2008
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222 comments on DrumBeat: November 20, 2008
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A suggestion for a new oil price poll
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/rwtcM.htm
The above link shows the monthly average WTI spot crude oil price. You can also select daily, weekly or annual.
I suggest a new oil price poll: Will the price of oil in 2008 average at or above $100 or below $100?
If my math is correct, if spot prices average $50 for November and December, the average annual spot price for 2008 would be exactly $100, versus $72 for 2007.
My take on oil prices was, and is, that we are looking at a long term series of doublings, as importers bid against each other for declining net oil exports, but since I have no way of quantifying prices, I don’t know what the time periods will be between the doublings.
I also said that prices in the second half of 2008 would obviously be a horserace between declining demand and long term decline in net oil exports. It’s pretty clear that the decline in demand is currently outpacing the long term decline in net oil exports, but we shall see what happens next year, and in subsequent years.
What is your reasoning behind the idea of doublings, as opposed to, say, a long-term linear trend?
Of course, any long term exponential rate of increase results in a series of doublings, i.e., Rule of 72, but my characterization was colored by the recent price history, when we went from $63 in June, 2007 to $125 in June, 2008. In any case, I characterized it this way: $25, $50, $100, $200, $400 . . . with the question being the time periods between the doublings.
Having experienced several price declines, I also knew that prices declines are are not only likely, they are basically a virtual certainty. However, I think that the net export model is going to drive prices higher long term.
I'm just glad that we are still in the same house that we had at $20 oil and that I am still in the same office that I had at $20 oil.
I get that the decrease in demand has influenced the decrease in oil prices. What I don't get is that the decrease in demand is nothing compared to the percentage decrease in oil prices. The way things are going, I would not bet that oil prices are going to stay above or at $50 for the rest of the year.
Nobody ever said demand/price curves had to be linear.
Thinking of this as an accordian effect. The oil price signal just a few months ago was telling producers to bring every drop they could to market. So there was a long train of oil supply rushing to the scene with a bunch of inertia.
The meltdown has in these few short months taken trillions of dollars out of the investment market. At the same time demand has fallen off. The combination of falling demand and the evaporation of the hedge fund capital has caused a new lower price signal to be sent to the producers but the train of imports from the previous signal has not stopped 'stacking up' similar to those fleets of cars and trucks clogging up ports around the world.
Meanwhile no new 'demand' (with the possible exception of Japan imports) signal is forthcomming and therefore the price continues to fall in light of supplies building. It will take some new demand signal like ,heating oil or increased driving due to lower price, to get the train moving again, or simply time as the realization sets in that current consumption is still plenty strong enough to do in ELM.
Either that or some heretofore unknown clarity on the supply outlook. I echo all those who maintain that the current low oil price is doing untold harm. An energy tax designed to smooth out volitility and reward alternatives is in order. To the contributors here at TOD many thanks for keeping us focused as to the realistic supply outlook, the need for preparation, and the other countless issues of the day.
The increase in oil prices bore little/no resemblance to the increase in demand when things were inflating... why should you expect the downside to be much different?
If I'm not misunderstanding this (and maybe I am, I'm not claiming to be a major economics expert) it's good evidence of the very severe inelasticity of the demand / supply relationship.
Small excess of demand over supply = disproportionate price hike
Small excess of supply over demand = disproportionate price drop
I see it as an illustration of the extreme dependence of the modern economy on oil.
The foreseeable future looks like this to me: every time the economy starts expanding "healthily", that only lasts until the demand for oil exceeds the supply for a while, and energy prices then proceed to skyrocket, inducing another recession.
We will lurch from crisis to crisis, with the inexorable shrinkage of supply over the long term, meaning booms getting shorter and weaker, with recessions getting longer and deeper.
I wish I didn't think this, but I do. :[
Regards Chris
Monthly average for 2008 $109.64
If oil was for free for rest of the year (including november) the monthly average would be about $91
Original link again http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/rwtcA.htm
Price is falling but still going up.
In the Oil Patch, the monthly and annual price data are what matter. It's very much analogous to your income. Do you pay attention to what you earn on a daily basis, or a monthly and annual basis?
Of course, if one is an oil trader, daily price swings are very important.
In any event, as noted above, it's pretty clear that the actual, and to some extent perceived, decline in demand is currently outpacing the long term decline in net oil exports, probably aggravated by forced selling of oil positions. I expect this situation to change, probably as soon as next year, but time will tell.