What I take issue with is fear mongering, and telling people that its past time they start preparing to live like the Waltons is just that.

You have got to be kidding me. You must be living in a different economic universe from the one that the rest of us live in.

What's wrong with living like the Waltons anyway. They had a huge house, a barn, a workshop, and some land. That sounds pretty good to me!

Yah, but you would likely turn your brain to mush saying things like "goodnight Jim Bob" and "That was great".

Well you know it's not all bad. I ended up a "Brady" bunch. Tiny house, ended up a single parent with 2 boys. a few years down the line, I met a wonderful single mother with 2 daughters. Talk about insanity. Went from batching it, to a bunch of women. We had to make the deck a new room, 3 quick walls and a roof. put the girls upstairs and the boys in the basement. Wife and I got the new room on the ground floor. A tiny bit of seperation helps a lot. One bathroom saw a lot of traffic, and even some urgent pounding on the door. Not the guys, we all headed outside in a pinch.

Tolerance goes a long way, they all now are the best of friends. Grown to adults.

Pigs, chickens, good damn dog, all the kids remember this as heaven. Each has approached me, if it would be ok, if they are stuck to head back here. I think you all know my answer. I'm really proud they are all as strong as they are. Gawd talk about assets. Both boys can outshoot me. Better eyes.

Younger son's significant other is born to the crossbow. Not a one of us can come close.

Some days we used to get furious with each other, but threaten us all and we pull together. We do it now all the time. a touch, a hug, a hug for the plott hound. Darn dawg was another stray, we have a pile of strays here. Each says it in their own way. Damn dawg is on duty. Big time.

I clean toilets for work, to get cash. My life is some good.

Don in Maine

Oh by the way I beat you all to that job cleaning toilets, you get to be unemployed. Sounds cool right, you don't collect either.

The problem, and we all do it, is in thinking of prices in absolute $ values. If your ability to pay is dropping faster than the notional price is, then the cost is going up. Corrected for deflation, the cost of fuel has not dropped as far as it appears to have. I wonder what the cost of fuel looks like to one of the 533k who lost their jobs last month?

You advice was/is sound. The confluence of PO, climate change, and economic and political collapse is bound to be very complex and the timing of specific events hard to predict. It's amazing that some cannot even see it happening around them.

Also, the assumption that everything will happen at an even rate in all geographic and social regions is naive.

"Also, the assumption that everything will happen at an even rate in all geographic and social regions is naive."

I think that is one of the most important points ever made on this board.

I think one problem for the "average joe/jane" is they tend to think in terms of "all or none" happening everywhere all at once. But every locale has unique variables for their food and energy distribution systems, governmental functions, utilities/city services, ethnic mixes...

Each locale has different strengths and weaknesses based on "genes' (people) and the local environmental limitations (climate and resources) those 'genes' happen to be in.

So, you are absolutely right, The Symptoms of Collapse certainly will not be distributed equally over time or place.

All are at the mercy of The Real Market (i.e. Nature).

There is no "safe," only safer. And what is "safer" today may not be safer tomorrow.

Like Dmitry Orlov says (paraphrase), "it's good to make plans, but also plan to change plans frequently"

Unfortunately, employment tends to be binary, either you have a job or you don't and it tends to be a rather large variable in the survival equation.

Picture 533,000 newly unemployed w/wheelbarrows moving O-NPK, converting land into permaculture plots, building narrow-gauge minitrains and SpiderWeb networks to 'ribcage' support the buildout of Alan's 'spine and limbs' standard-gauge ideas, Terra Preta industries and reforestation work, plus building minimal water usage facilities:

http://web.archive.org/web/19960101-re_/http://www.uni-kiel.de/sino/ar/s...

Or will the US fiddle around until we replicate Zimbabwe's 90% unemployment rate and short life expectancy? Are Americans ready to balance 100lbs of firewood on their heads while walking barefoot through broken glass, thorns, and sewage?

My guess is that China will move in this more optimal direction much faster than the US. Recall previous weblink where they are racing to build lots of additional standard-gauge track miles. Will China start building out narrow-gauge minitrain and SpiderWebRiding networks soon? Much, much cheaper than asphalt at $100,000 per mile.

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

There's gonna be a lot more than 533,000 newly unemployed souls moving O-NPK...

Oh, and while you're at it, we can burn that asphalt with the right boiler (PDF WARNING!) and use our very roads to power our energy descent.

moving O-NPK... the story of my life

Remember when they thought we had too much broadband? Build it and they will come.

The actual number of unemployed in the USA is somewhere between 15 and 20 million. How many wheelbarrows are there in America?