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233 comments on DrumBeat: December 5, 2008

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Twilight on December 5, 2008 - 1:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The problem, and we all do it, is in thinking of prices in absolute $ values. If your ability to pay is dropping faster than the notional price is, then the cost is going up. Corrected for deflation, the cost of fuel has not dropped as far as it appears to have. I wonder what the cost of fuel looks like to one of the 533k who lost their jobs last month?

You advice was/is sound. The confluence of PO, climate change, and economic and political collapse is bound to be very complex and the timing of specific events hard to predict. It's amazing that some cannot even see it happening around them.

Also, the assumption that everything will happen at an even rate in all geographic and social regions is naive.

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sendoilplease on December 5, 2008 - 2:38pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"Also, the assumption that everything will happen at an even rate in all geographic and social regions is naive."

I think that is one of the most important points ever made on this board.

I think one problem for the "average joe/jane" is they tend to think in terms of "all or none" happening everywhere all at once. But every locale has unique variables for their food and energy distribution systems, governmental functions, utilities/city services, ethnic mixes...

Each locale has different strengths and weaknesses based on "genes' (people) and the local environmental limitations (climate and resources) those 'genes' happen to be in.

So, you are absolutely right, The Symptoms of Collapse certainly will not be distributed equally over time or place.

All are at the mercy of The Real Market (i.e. Nature).

There is no "safe," only safer. And what is "safer" today may not be safer tomorrow.

Like Dmitry Orlov says (paraphrase), "it's good to make plans, but also plan to change plans frequently"

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HankF on December 5, 2008 - 4:02pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Unfortunately, employment tends to be binary, either you have a job or you don't and it tends to be a rather large variable in the survival equation.

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totoneila on December 5, 2008 - 5:40pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Picture 533,000 newly unemployed w/wheelbarrows moving O-NPK, converting land into permaculture plots, building narrow-gauge minitrains and SpiderWeb networks to 'ribcage' support the buildout of Alan's 'spine and limbs' standard-gauge ideas, Terra Preta industries and reforestation work, plus building minimal water usage facilities:

http://web.archive.org/web/19960101-re_/http://www.uni-kiel.de/sino/ar/s...

Or will the US fiddle around until we replicate Zimbabwe's 90% unemployment rate and short life expectancy? Are Americans ready to balance 100lbs of firewood on their heads while walking barefoot through broken glass, thorns, and sewage?

My guess is that China will move in this more optimal direction much faster than the US. Recall previous weblink where they are racing to build lots of additional standard-gauge track miles. Will China start building out narrow-gauge minitrain and SpiderWebRiding networks soon? Much, much cheaper than asphalt at $100,000 per mile.

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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Geckolizard on December 5, 2008 - 5:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

There's gonna be a lot more than 533,000 newly unemployed souls moving O-NPK...

Oh, and while you're at it, we can burn that asphalt with the right boiler (PDF WARNING!) and use our very roads to power our energy descent.

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sgage on December 5, 2008 - 6:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

moving O-NPK... the story of my life

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tstreet on December 5, 2008 - 7:40pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Remember when they thought we had too much broadband? Build it and they will come.

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thomas deplume on December 5, 2008 - 10:53pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The actual number of unemployed in the USA is somewhere between 15 and 20 million. How many wheelbarrows are there in America?

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233 comments on DrumBeat: December 5, 2008

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