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194 comments on DrumBeat: December 12, 2008

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WNC Observer on December 12, 2008 - 10:00am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

While Detroit Slept (Friedman, NYT)

. . . our bailout of Detroit will be remembered as the equivalent of pouring billions of dollars of taxpayer money into the mail-order-catalogue business on the eve of the birth of eBay. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into the CD music business on the eve of the birth of the iPod and iTunes. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into a book-store chain on the eve of the birth of Amazon.com and the Kindle. It will be remembered as pouring billions of dollars into improving typewriters on the eve of the birth of the PC and the Internet.

What business model am I talking about? It is Shai Agassi’s electric car network company, called Better Place. Just last week, the company, based in Palo Alto, Calif., announced a partnership with the state of Hawaii to road test its business plan there after already inking similar deals with Israel, Australia, the San Francisco Bay area and, yes, Denmark.

The Better Place electric car charging system involves generating electrons from as much renewable energy — such as wind and solar — as possible and then feeding those clean electrons into a national electric car charging infrastructure. This consists of electricity charging spots with plug-in outlets — the first pilots were opened in Israel this week — plus battery-exchange stations all over the respective country. The whole system is then coordinated by a service control center that integrates and does the billing.

Under the Better Place model, consumers can either buy or lease an electric car from the French automaker Renault or Japanese companies like Nissan (General Motors snubbed Agassi) and then buy miles on their electric car batteries from Better Place the way you now buy an Apple cellphone and the minutes from AT&T. That way Better Place, or any car company that partners with it, benefits from each mile you drive. G.M. sells cars. Better Place is selling mobility miles.

I often dislike Friedman, but today's column is a good one.

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Durandal on December 12, 2008 - 11:03am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I think that business model could work well in cities with high density, but it wouldn't work well at all in rural areas. Fortunately, I don't think that efforts will ever be wasted on rural areas. What we need for rural areas is turbo-charged or supercharged 4-cylinder trucks with CVTs so that they can provide high RPMs to provide torque at low speeds for hauling stuff, then providing low RPMs with the low displacement for high MPG at higher speeds.

The idea that a person needs a V8 or v10 for hauling things is unreasonable unless you're hauling a bunch of cattle or similarly absurdly heavy things. (Such as my Airstream trailer which is nearly 8,000 lbs.) Even then, a supercharged I6 with a CVT could handle it.

But, back on topic, I think that Americans will be slower to adapt to a system where you rent by the mile or swap out batteries, etc than Europeans and those in other countries. Until Americans view cars and trucks as modes of transportation instead of extensions of themselves, this will persist.

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kcrsnova on December 12, 2008 - 12:04pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Americans will be slower to adapt to a system where you rent by the mile or swap out batteries, etc than Europeans and those in other countries. Until Americans view cars and trucks as modes of transportation instead of extensions of themselves, this will persist.

It's often been said that Americans don't drive their cars so much as wear them. I think this is just another symptom of American's defining themselves by what they consume/own over what they do. I do detect among some younger folks (teenagers) a general disillusion with the current system, and there may be hope for a shift to valuing the use/utility of things over owning them.

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jokuhl on December 12, 2008 - 1:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

To be fair, I'd say cowboys might be said to 'Wear' their horses, and an Inuit most certainly wears his Kayak.. It's less whether we are tied to our ride, but whether our ride is sensibly put together. (ie, 'Sustainably Harvested')

Excuse me, I'm late for a bike fitting..

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airdale on December 12, 2008 - 1:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

There is a small revolution occurring in my area of the flyover outback.

More and LOTS more folks are buying and driving the vehicles which started as the John Deere Gator,but now Polaris is making them and a whole lot more.

So instead of so many 4 wheel ATVs I am seeing these fourwheel contraptions driving all over the place.

None are truly licensed but they run to the mailbox,go to the back 40,even drive into town sometimes and in general make plenty of the short trips on and off the farm that used to be done with pickups and sometimes ATVs. The ATVs are a different thing. Usually kids do them. With these its a lot of more senior folks. Past their 20s, so to speak.

Yes a lot of hunters are using them, laziness I guess. But I see a brisk market developing here for them. Seem now each farm has one or two.

Don't know what kind of mileage they get but they are very simple to operate. Have a roof but usually open sides. Has a bed in back for carrying cargo. Two seats in front.

Can't compete on the highways but can run up to 40-50 mph. Don't usually go on 2 lane state highways except for short forays. Used mostly on county back roads but they are becoming very prevalent.

Perhaps pouring gas in fuel inefficient pickups is costing too much.

Seems pretty nice way to motor into the woods to pick up some deadfall or sawed up tree trunks.

Airdale

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WNC Observer on December 12, 2008 - 2:40pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

They look to be a step up from golf carts - much more sturdy and durable, probably less likely to roll over unless you do something stupid.

If an NEV like a GEM is street legal, I don't see why one of these shouldn't be. Not for highway use, though.

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moabite on December 12, 2008 - 3:25pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Side by side ATV's (and even regular 4 wheeled ATV's) are now street legal in Utah:

http://www.epicmotors.com/ATVs%20Now%20legal%20in%20Utah.html

The reality of ATV's is similar to the reality of most large motorcycles. They don't get great gas mileage. 20-30mpg is the usual. Of course, when you ride an ATV you normally are not driving it like you are in the Mobil Mileage Rally.

I talked to a guy in Moab who was out driving his Polaris Ranger. He said since the law was passed, he hardly ever drove his truck. Of course, Moab, Utah is pretty much the perfect environment for an open ATV. I doubt you would see a lot of people driving one of these in Dallas in August, or Chicago in January.

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doug fir on December 12, 2008 - 3:38pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I get sticker shock. And I wonder about durability. Will they get 200K, or the hours of a tractor?

Right now I see them mostly as status, highly visible signs of affluence. Last winter you could hardly keep them in the showroom, wonder what goes on this winter.

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194 comments on DrumBeat: December 12, 2008

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