89 comments on Oil Prices Below $40 per Barrel
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
89 comments on Oil Prices Below $40 per Barrel
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Blogroll
- ASPO The official site of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
- Energy Bulletin Clearing house for news regarding the peak in global energy supply.
- PowerSwitch Dedicated to raising awareness & discussion of the impending & permanent decline of cheap oil & gas supply.
- ODAC Oil Depletion Analysis Centre working to raise awareness and promote better understanding of the world's oil-depletion problem.
- Global Public Media Public service broadcasting for a post carbon world.
- Post Carbon Institute Learning to live in a low energy world.
- PeakOil.com US site and forum to educate and promote awareness of global hydrocarbon depletion.
- FEASTA The Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability
- Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) This website describes an effective and fair response both to climate change and oil/gas depletion
- Aleklett's Energy Mix Global Energy Systems, Peak Oil, etc
- www.SamassaVeneessä.info Finnish peak oil site
Other Blogs
User login
Personnel
Editors
Contributors
Peak Oil Primers
Archives
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
Vital Trivia
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.




GAIA Host Collective
THE WAY IT REALLY HAPPENED
My history of posts on TOD US will demonstrate that I had repeatedly warned people against falling into the trap of believing that oil and other commodities were going nowhere but up in price. I say this not as a way of saying “I told you so” but as a way of reminding people to be very, VERY cautious about believing current projections.
The price of commodities shot up very quickly across the board, and then declined just as fast. Are we to believe that supply dropped that fast in EVERY AREA of commodities, and then recovered just as quickly? That does not seem likely. On the demand side, yes, demand has declined, but has it declined in EVERY AREA to the extent that price declines would indicate.
The fact that these price moves have been so fast, across the board and in both directions indicate that we are seeing a speculative bubble inflate and then pop, pure and simple, and price moves have little to do with supply and demand changes in the short term.
Logically we must ask, “What has caused such an acceleration in price changes over the last few years?” I think it is extremely informative that you mentioned first on your list of events “1999: Glass-Steagall Act is fully repealed”. Very perceptive observation to put this event right at the front of what would become the beginning of an accelerated increase in house prices, commodity prices and speculative investment. We must recall that another source of capital was the flood out of the already overextended tech sector.
With the repeal of Glass-Steagall and the flood of cash from the tech sector, we had a situation of huge amounts of money looking for a place to go. The banks could now jump in and play the speculative game just like the hedge funds and venture funds. Everybody, whether they knew it or not, was now playing in the casino and had money on the table, through hedge funds, banker’s investing in hedging, funds of funds, pensions, and homes, which would soon be subject to the same accelerated price swings that oil and other commodities were already subject to.
Needless to say, the new flood of free flowing money brought out the “adventurer” in bankers (now freed up by the repeal of Glass Steagall), hedge fund managers, market advisors and gurus and even mutual fund and pension fund managers. The “Lords of the Universe” now had the chance to show what they could really do, and investment vehicles tied to underlying commodities, interest rates, and collateralized debt obligations could become ever more complex, multi layered and “hedged” six ways from hell.
The main point of all this is that price swings which would have in past years happened much more slowly now happen with whiplash inducing speed. The flood of money, the complexity, the speed of the internet has accelerated the “Queuing Theory” past a point that allows for comprehension by most humans. If you add in the pure irresponsibility and outright fraud of managers and financial firms who purposely complicate things for the purpose of obfuscation, you have a recipe for disaster.
Oil, like real estate and houses and other commodities are simply the vehicles to which the financial manipulators tied their wagons. The real value of the commodity simply does not matter to the speculators and financial managers at banks and hedge funds. What matters is that people can be convinced to pour money into the investment firms on the belief that the price will change, hopefully to the investors advantage.
When the economy is growing and things are going up, the tool used to recruit investors is greed, i.e., “look at the return you can get on this, you don’t want to be left out”, and when they are going down the tool used to recruit is fear, as in “we have a hedge against losses that can protect you”.
Finally, there were too many people playing the same game. Everyone wanted double digit returns, and everybody was pouring money in, and there was plenty of money to go around at first, with the money that had fled the tech boom available, the massive returns made by the banks on the prior rises in real estate available, and the depositors money now available if it were need since the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and a new fast moving almost completely unregulated group of funds, the Hedge Fund, and then the “fund of funds”, which could pretty much do anything they wished without oversight, but, and this turned out to be very important, without insurance or government protection.
So when the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 oil prices were already rising after the price decline caused by the 9-11 terror attack, and the war further accelerated the price gains. Production was starting to flatten because in the 1990’s investment had slowed to a crawl because oil had been so cheap as to be beyond belief (we’re talking about prices below $20.00 per barrel) and the OPEC nations and others had simply stalled on investment in E&P. The rumbles of “peak oil” were just beginning to get into the media. This was a DREAM RECIPE for those who wanted to suck investors into investing in oil, gas and commodities. As you say, “The Rest Is History”, as money flooded into the commodities markets. When the housing market started to show signs of weakness, investors began to get scared, and the ones that were able to bailed out, selling houses. More sold, the market was getting full of houses, but now there were fewer buyers. A few foreclosures became a few more as some of the “house flippers” could not unload at a profit. Again the rest is history, and the money from the real estate boom needed somewhere to go. Commodities, yes, said the investment gurus, commodities were safe!
Brokerage firms who know almost nothing about oil production, consumption and pricing began to talk about $200 per barrel oil (the disgrace that was Goldman Sachs), and retired geologists were on every channel telling the public that the end was near, we would be lucky to get through the next summer (whichever of the last three or four summers they were referring to) without a catastrophe. And the money just kept pouring in, and the commodities skyrocketed.
And then, like all bubbles, the bubble popped. The financial gurus were in trouble and they knew it because frankly they had not gotten it right for their investors for too long. From the collapse of the S&L’s they had herded the investor from one short lived bubble to another, from Asian bonds to the tech bubble, to the real estate bubble, to the Euro bubble, to the commodities bubble. But the acceleration of the cycle of promotion, inflation, extreme high prices and then bursting of these bubbles had become too fast. Even the banks and hedge funds could not stay up, and the investors themselves were either become scared or had been so cleaned out by the gurus they couldn’t keep adding money. Again, the rest is history…
A story of a friend of mine who is in the business, by which I mean the financial sector: She had her clients in the stock market, well diversified, funds, ETF’s, mutual funds, and Index funds. She saw the bad news getting worse, so she persuaded them to move to something “safer”, a mix of REIT’s and, yep, you guessed it, commodities funds. She had become persuaded that oil and gas were only going to get more and more expensive. Do I have to tell you the results of what happened? Her investors are now down by more than 55%. Some of them are getting rather close to planned retirement, and are horrified. Even if the market returns to 10% annual returns, it will take years for these aging boomers to regain what has been lost, post taxes and fees it may take even longer than they may live, and how likely do you think it is that the market will soon deliver double digit returns?
Many in the Peak Oil community have embarrassed themselves badly by making wild claims about short term prices. The same thing has happened in the climate change community, where people have made wild predictions about short term weather changes. The Oil Drum has been unfortunate, in that it is a very open forum, and has posts from both of these movements, peak oil and climate change. This means that people come to TOD and see streams of posts which are based on the two most unreliable and unpredictable patterns in the world, weather patterns and market patterns. This is not TOD’s fault, and long time visitors to the site know that these projections/predictions must be taken with a HUGE grain of salt, but newcomers to the site do not grant this license and the whole cause of peak oil and climate change thus lose credibility in the larger public because a few posters have essentially decided they are prophets.
As for the future, I agree with you Luis, I would not dare to predict future prices. I will say this however: I would be happy to live the rest of my natural life with oil and gasoline prices as much as twice what they currently are., inflation adjusted, meaning I will accept gasoline prices of $4.00 to $5.00 per gallon U.S. (I have survived worse than $4.00 and I was poorer then) So obviously I could hedge by buying oil and gasoline futures at ANY PRICE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE and still be happy! I am not seeking massive returns, just a stable price for my lifestyle. I would be amazed if the very wealthy are not hedging their oil price futures just this way, but I could be wrong.
On the other hand, I have been astounded by how many wealthy people and families have pissed away their money with this Ponzi hedge fund scheme run by Bernie Madoff, and wonder how many more of these type of funds are out there. With apologies to De Niro, “Ah markets, I love the smell of default in the morning!”
Roger Conner Jr.
Roger, I cannot tell you "how many more of these type of funds are out there" but know there will be many more. part of a bubble is the greed and lack of caution that is so beloved by scammers and con artists.
At the moment i am in Africa typing on a dusty Arabic keyboard with missing letters, i.e. remember which letter goes with which key:) i have spent a very entertaining 30 minutes being conned out of USD 20 and it was a delight to see how hard he worked and the tales he invented to obtain his money. i knew all along i was being conned but wanted to see how he would do it.
Roger,
Well said. Long winded, but well said.
So we can chatter the "price" of oil way up, way down and way up again; and it won't change the realities: Our populations keep growing, the environment keeps being depleted (non-renewably), and we keep chattering, making more babies, and making more "price" noises. What a joke! (On us.)
__________
p.s. I didn't know that in UK a "customer" (American spelling) is a costume-r. All dressed up and ready to spend, eh?
So, there was a speculative bubble on used cardboard?
Let's ask the question another way...Was there a shortage of used cardboard? If so was it caused by geological peaking? Or perhaps failure to invest in cardboard exploration and development? :-)
I have known financial people to speculate in products and commodities both new and used that I didn't even know a market could exist in. I also know personally a man who has spent his adult life making a living hauling and selling used cardboard to the recyclers.
RC
Thanks for the post. I would like to defend TOD, not because I have anything personally invested in it, but because it is, in fact, the most intelligent and open forum out there discussing "Peak Oil" and "Climate Change", their inter-relationships and their grounding in physical reality.
If "short term" or "new" readers come here for a quick fix, and if they are disappointed by the result, well so be it. TOD is a sort of blurry mirror of nature, and although we are all looking through that glass darkly, we all discern different things. For me, the beauty of this site its its essential honesty-- no idea or model has yet, and hopefully never will, reached the status of "orthodoxy." Even the founding principle "peak oil" has been subjected to intense scrutiny and redefinition and recalculation.
Practically all other vaguely similar sites are organized around some favored notion, which is not permitted to be challenged, and so rapidly becomes irrelevant.
I
So I keep reading TOD. I read it like I read modern fiction -- I think we are looking at multiple parallel and intersecting stories-- each has a personality behind it, and a set of assumptions about how the world works. They can be read individually, but taken together, they form a complex and far more interesting tale.
Roger, yes the greatest of energy experts along with mere myself were taken in by this false call of the market. But the real one is surely not far behind. The demise of those auto makers and airlines doesn't come a day too soon.
Thanks Roger. Your post here feels very true to me. I am a lower-middle class single adult concerned about the future (for myself and for everyone). I don't pretend to understand the complexities of markets and financial trends, yet I try my best to use my reason to make the best decisions I can. Nonetheless a lot of what I have to go on is trust; trust in the opinions of other people, like yourself, who I find reasonable and more informed than myself. So I have a question for you...
I have recently moved more than half of my savings out of my credit union savings account and into gold (precisely, this would be seven Maple Leafs). What I want to know is if gold is also a bubble or if it reasonable to guess that gold will rise relative to the dollar over the next, say, 3-5 years. What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you,
Emanuel
I've also been buying maple leafs. I read somewhere that throughout history, an ounce of gold has always been able to buy about an acre of land. I can't answer your question, but a few weeks ago, I read that if the Chinese economy really starts to tank, they will start selling off all their gold reserves and so serve to greatly depress the price. However, I'll keep my maple leafs whatever happens.
What I heard is that an ounce of gold buys a fancy suit, and an ounce of silver buys a fancy meal. This is true for the years 1800, 1900, and 2000.
Since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913, the US dollar lost 96% of its value.
emanuel,
First, I have a bit of natural caution concerning precious metals due to my own history...In the 1970's I poured money into silver which at that time was going "nowhere but up", and quickly lost about two thirds of my investment :-(
Gold is a currency substitute (or it is really more correct to say that currency is a gold, silver, platinum, etc., substitute but that is a theoretical argument), so how you feel about hold depends on how you feel about the longer term stability of world currency. Someone down below in this string makes the humorous case that "while the oil consumers try to use gold to buy oil, the oil sheiks use oil to buy gold" :-)
The problem with gold is that you can't get paid while you wait. You have to sell it to collect your moeny. Did you feel your credit union accounts were in any danger? Did they have national government protection? Because to go to gold, you would have to believe that not only the credit union would collapse but that the protecting authority (usually the national government) would also collapse and fail to pay.
If that were to actually happen, then gold would not be a bad bet, you just have to figure the odds. By the time I am down to buying gold, I would feel even better about buying canned food, guns and ammo. Oh, and don't forget the all important can openers. :-)
Then when you sell the gold, it will be to buy back the dollar that you had lost faith in...as you ask "gold relative to dollar". It's a speculative route, and in a deflationary environment, which we now seem to be in, we will have to many goods chasing too few dollars...until the flood of paper from the worldwide bailouts hit the market place at least. It could be all over the place for quite awhile, meaning that you better not need the money soon.
So short term gain possible on the panic, long term, sell on gains and take the money UNLESS you are convinced of the collapse of worldwide currencies, something every national government will fight to the death. Gold is a bit against the world economy, so by nature it's a long shot.
That's my thinking as of now anyway, and you can't eat gold or burn it for heat, so you are still invested in an "exchange" market either way...but as a speculative investment, good for panic runups, yeah, I would take gold if anybody out there loses faith in it and wants to give some away...:-)
RC
Ron,
I liked your original posts and following comments but it was easy to predict years ago that we would be where we are today.
People need to read and understand their history. More people need to read about the Great Depression particularly with an eye to the events that led up to it rather than the misery after 1929. The similarities between 2008 and 1929 are great if you substitute oil for land and hedge funds for private bank stocks.
The pattern is the same and was fostered in both cases by a total belief in FREE MARKETS enabled in the U.S. by an Executive and Legislative government that had an active dislike of and worked to prevent OVERSIGHT of financial institutions. I stress financial institutions not business in general.
Those two things are all you need to repeat 1929 and 2008. The details will always be a bit different but the pattern and the outcome will be the same each time around. Engines without governors go to runaway mode and break. Now the TIMING of when things break, that's unpredictable.
With apologies to De Niro, “Ah markets, I love the smell of default in the morning!”
Great post, but that was Duvall:
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end..."
Seems a fitting quote for TOD...
your right, it was Duvall! I thought about double checking it, but I was overdue for some sleep and my old guy memory failed me...good catch jimbo...my error.
RC
' ... and “hedged” six ways from hell.'
Isn't it really ' ... and “hedged” six ways TO hell. '? ;-)
Hey, what is this, a literary magazine? :-) But your right, "six ways to hell" would be the more correct usage...as we say in the south, I got it "bass ackwards". :-)
RC
Very nice story.
And I even believe in most of it (no sarcasm intended).
However, the scientist within me wants to ask:
Where is the proof for all this?
To this this day no credible source that I have been able to find, has produced watertight evidence as to who, why, where and how manipulated oil prices or how speculation more than doubled the price of oil spot?
I can't say it didn't happen, but I don't yet see the proof anywhere. To me correlation just isn't sufficient.
Because, if we lack the proof we will NOT be able to stop it the next time around: the same people ('us' or 'them', doesn't matter), using same mechanisms will be able to do the same thing all over again.
That's why I'd really like to see some hard facts on the table.
As for the production and price linkage, I think you might be making a serious error of judgment.
Just as high price doesn't directly prove tight supply/demand situation or production problems, NEITHER does low price disprove any problems either.
One can't have it just one way, the correlation must work both ways.
To me the basic rule of thumb is still this:
High prices are a required, but not sufficient signal of tightness/problems in production (cf. demand). But, and this is a big but, this doesn't always pan out in the short term. Markets can stay irrational longer than one can stay solvent, Keynes used to say.
BTW, thanks for taking the time to write that lengthy post. I really appreciate it. It's much nicer to read long and well well thought out posts, which are not the norm here - or elsewhere for that matter.