Chaos is not supposed to be predictive, it's supposed to be explanatory, including the explanation about why it's impossible to make certain predictions is certain time frames with arbitrary accuracy due to the butterfly effect.

Of course, we also have no set of equations which accurately describes individual, group, and mass psychology and behaviors. Another slight problem with using chaos to predict the unfolding of the collapse.

I guess part of my issue is that while I agree that human and group decision making cannot easily be pinned down, the object acted on -- that of constrained resources -- we have a solid chance of quantifying. I really think we can make some progress understanding this and I think it has great importance for planning; I know many people believe that a collapse is a collapse and so why bother. Fine, but policy is the backbone of politics and something formal needs to be given to our leaders besides anguish.

For awhile at least I had respect for economists, sensing that they must have brilliant theories. I once took a macroeconomics class from Walter Heller, who was a main economic advisor to both Kennedy and Johnson. Heller would show up for the lectures and say something profound (I assume, I can't remember), but most of the class was taught by TA's. One TA sketched out a long equation on the chalkboard, let us ponder over it for a few seconds, and then promptly erased it. He said something to the effect, "that is the last time you will see an equation". I don't know why, but that action had always bothered me; it seemed like a resignation to failure.

Recently someone on TOD pointed to a couple of short articles by Robert Nadeau concerning the origins of economic theory in the 19th century

Short article : http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-economist-has-no-cl...
Longer article : http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=brother-can-you-spare-m...

Nadeau asserts that not only does the formation of classical economics rely on strange analogies to physics, but that the analogies that the early economists chose were physics theories that were not even verified. They were basically vague postulations on the balance of energy existing in the "ether", in other words not the concrete Newtonian stuff that everyone agreed on, but ideas of the more abstract mysterious origins of electrical or magnetic energy that started to gain traction around that time. And to top it off, many of teh early economists were religious and thought god had something to do with this (i.e. the idea of the invisible hand). This all occurred slightly before physicists like Maxwell figured out the practical formulation that has served us well. I got from Nadeau that the only perturbation to the original ideas were those provide by Keynes and others who allowed that we could subtly guide economies, and this was not just an invisible hand.

So, the analytic battle exists on several fronts. We have economic theory that is down the toilet. We have the quants on Wall Street who have basically made a mess of the situation and caused many people to distrust any math. We have chaos believers who immediately put up red flags warning that dangers lurk in any analysis. We have other mathematicians that blow smoke by creating impressive formalisms that show purity but lack any connection to practicality. And finally we have a somewhat MEGO public that can't get interested.

I stand by the side of using practical probability and statistics and don't get cowed by the nay-sayers that say we can't and will never understand any of this. Yesterday, I just found a book in my stacks called "The Earth's Dynamic Systems" written by Hamblin in 1975. This guy was definitely concerned about our resources and the opposite of a cornucopian, yet he did write the following:

We basically know the extent of our mineral resources and the rates of our consumption. It is not difficult to project how long they will last.

So why is it that 30 years later, we still have no fundamental frameworks and argue over the reliability of heuristics such as HL? And still no one knows how much is in SA reserve? Perhaps back-of-the-envelope estimates is all that we ever needed. Yet look at the predicament we are in. A few valid theories of economics and of resource depletion dynamics certainly wouldn't have hurt.

Perhaps back-of-the-envelope estimates is all that we ever needed.

Bingo! The most obvious proof is the small effect on peak that comes from significantly larger URR.

It would be worth a post for one of you eggheads, er... more able persons... to take a look at this issue.

Cheers

Actually the problem is the reverse case current production and peak can be supported with a significantly lower URR estimate.

Its not the significantly larger URR case that is popular thats of concern.

We have the technical ability to produce at our current rate against much lower real reserve levels then are generally reported. Of course this is at the expense of a steep decline post peak. I personally have not been able to find compelling evidence that we are not in the maximum case i.e producing at the maximum rate agianst the smallest URR that can sustain that rate.

A rather simple understanding of our economic systems suggests this is the most probable situation.

As you point out assuming much larger URR's does not change the peak date all that much therefore unless proven otherwise given or economic model the most probable URR is the smallest possible to replicate our past production history and a conservative estimate of world discovery.

This can readily be shown to be in the range of 1250-1500 GB we simply don't need more oil than this to produce at our current rate. Our entire production history can readily be fitted with this minimum assumption.

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/map-505.html

Elimination of questionable reserve additions worldwide which serve only to fatten the tail of production theoretically I might add because these additions would be produced at a rate at 50% or less of todays and its not clear they even exist. If they do then its not clear they will be produced since its not clear what sort of economy would demand their production i.e its a different world then.

Where the reserve additions are not outright fabrications they are generally not backed by new discoveries but by expansion of the reserve claims for fields that have been in production for some time by definition that would be produced from fairly depleted fields and production from such fields generally occurs at much lower production rates.

No matter how you consider them they don't add materially to the production rate over the minimum URR estimate.

Time will tell but at the moment there is no reason not to determine the minimum URR capable of sustaining current production and assume this is the right answer.

1250-1500 GB seems on the slim side. I don't recall getting a decent fit at all to the such a low-ball estimate.

Actually 1500 could turn out to be distinctly on the high side.

My current best estimate after recent review is 1350-1400. I think 1500 is on the verge of being out. If now got it at 90% confidence 1400 is tops.

Whats really funny is I pulled it down of your own work.

http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/2005/09/macro-peak-oil-model-vs-logisti...

And Nates comment

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5416#comment-504205

Onshore production globally peaked in 1982. If that doesn't convince folks that oil is finite I don't know what will.

Thats sufficient to derive my result with a very high degree of accuracy.

The beauty of it is the linear region is actually and almost pure artifact of technology.

2400*.50 = 1200
2400*.75 = 1800
2400*.60 = 1440

Turns out technology has actually increased extraction efficiency by 40% since about 1970. In other words with todays technology we can extract a reservoir almost twice is fast as we could in 1970. I've been trying for some time to narrow it down between 50% and 25% 50% was too high and 25% was obviously to low. Turns out given your graph and Natest comment 40% is just right.

What I was missing was the land peak once that was obvious the then the offshore split is obvious and this drops out the technical effect almost perfectly.

Your graph is also crtical because other approaches tend to semi-include it making them closer to the right answer but also corrupting the analysis since the include the right information incorrectly.

Throw in a a shock of a 40% increase in extraction efficiency starting in 1970 and peaking in 1998 and then we can talk real numbers. It might be slightly shifted to 1975/2003

Do it I don't care if you believe me then I can show you that where it went linear was because of this shock.

OK, I believe you if what you call URR, I call 2 times URR. If you want to redefine terms in your own universe that is fine.

Well thats the essence of the problem.

In a sense whats happened with reserve additions is as technology has progressed the reserve estimates of existing reserves have grown. This decision to expand the reserves was in many cases bolstered by improvements in extraction technology and in discovery technology. We could see the oil better and extract it faster.

http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2000/10oct/gulf_future.cfm

"When you look at recent reserve additions - from 1991-1998 - we've actually added more reserves on average in older fields than the average size of new field discoveries," he said. "And I think it will come as a great surprise to people that that's where the big additions on the shelf are coming from."

And it gets better.

The growing importance of reserve additions in older fields is aptly demonstrated during both the 1983-90 and the 1991-98 time periods, when the average reserve additions per field from older fields was 27 percent larger than the average size of new field discoveries.

This margin increases to 75 percent if the large proportion of older fields with negative revisions is ignored.

Both the average size and the number of new field discoveries declined significantly between 1991 and 1998, compared to the previous seven years. The decline in the average size of new discoveries was nearly universal across all areas, with the exception of the East Louisiana area where the average size of new discoveries actually doubled.

According to Nehring, there were 103 national class giant fields (100 million BOE and more) on the GOM OCS at the end of 1998. However, the concentration of recent reserve growth in older fields was not primarily a case of the big fields getting bigger.

"Recent large reserve additions in older fields were disproportionately concentrated in previously small and medium-size fields, advancing them to larger size categories," Nehring said. "In the late 1990s, an interesting sidelight of this phenomenon has been the revitalization of previously abandoned small fields through substantial new pool discoveries."

He offers insight into the lack of dominance of giant fields in recent reserve additions.

"Those fields were discovered in the 1950s and 1960s for the most part and recognized early-on as major fields," he said. "So they were treated as core assets by their operators, undergoing several cycles of re-evaluation and renewed exploration, which left relatively few reserves to be added."

So the big ones where well known and well developed by the early discoverers yet some how we can do all these reserve additions even though obviously they had no problem exhaustively extracting the reserves in the 1950's and 1960's from fields that where profitable at the time.

The shock I'm claiming happened is laid out in detail in this link. Hopefully it should be obvious that despite the claims these are crumbs every now and then you get a big crumb sure but treating this situation equal to oil occuring in large fields in the 1960's is not correct its not the same and I'd not surprised to see a lot of it won't be extracted or moved to unrecoverable.

And again you can't underestimate the revolution in discovery.

http://www.enermaxinc.com/3d-seismic-imaging/

"Seismic techniques and satellite imaging, which are facilitating the discovery of promising new natural gas reservoirs, have nearly doubled the success rate of new field wildcat wells in the United States during the past decade."

A 50% increase is success rate is not small its not correct to ignore the impact of 3D Seismic on the oil and gas industry it was a revolution not evolution.

Now simply consider if we had not developed 3D technology or even horizontal drilling I'd argue even without them we would have eventually developed most of these resources anyway. It would have taken longer and required a lot more wildcat drilling. But if technology has for some reason been frozen at 1970's levels all that would have happened is a lot of the resources would have been developed later in time.

But drilling a hole in the ground is highly effective at finding resources. Its a powerful technique slow and expensive but it worked very well.

If the technological advances of the last few decades did not result in any real significant increase in reserves but instead accelerated the rate at which we extracted the remaining oil in a basin vs what we would have done if technology had not advanced then all we did was force the extraction profile to become highly asymmetric in most of the worlds basins. We have reached the point that we are going to find out what really happened.

My opinion is obviously that the geologists in the period from 1950-1970 despite their lack of technology actually got the right answer because wildcat wells including the dry holes where much better at delineating real resources than people realize.

We have just now in the last couple of years finally hit the point that we are about to find out if this argument is right or wrong. If correct then the process has already started and we should be seeing oil production already starting to decline rapidly.

Given the proposed steepness of the decline rates your not talking about significant changes in overall production measured in months not years. Your talking about losing say about 200kbd - 700kbd of production on a monthly basis.

Technically we don't even really have to argue this since given the numbers I'm proposing it obvious what would happen. Once this starts you would get a rapid spike in oil prices maybe high enough to collapse the economy.

Depending on the details of the situation and the rate of collapse you might get a very brief period where production temporarily exceeds demand but it would have to be a massive unprecedented collapse and fast. Economic activity would have to drop dramatically over a matter of months. It could happen but the probability is low.

Regardless you certainly expect some sort of economic transition as this is effectively the same as a fast above ground oil embargo. Its going to leave one hell of a mark.

Next of course this does not matter assuming that all that happens is a initial economic contraction not outright collapse literally months later you have lost enough supply that you hit the supply demand problem again.

If I was going to predict what would happen when this event hit then I'd expect what would happen is prices would rise fast the economy would then contract and prices would probably flatten or slow their rise substantially. I'd not predict a fast collapse in the economy no real reason to its improbable. Possible but improbable.

Thens I'd predict that economic contraction can't keep pace with falling oil production and the economy would then probably contract sharply. Now I'd expect the chances of a fast contraction to be higher.

After this then it really just depends on the details but your back to rising prices and ever more resilient demand. However now I'd argue that prices would then rise until substantial demand destruction finally slowed the increase. This last time around in my opinion it goes until the system is forced to seek alternatives to oil. Simple conservation no longer works.

I actually feel like my model is a better fit i.e I really feel like we saw a slow contraction that finally was overtaken by depletion and forced into fast collapse mode.

So both the recent economic events and my estimates points to my assertions having already happened they would no longer be predictions. The only predictive part is that we would expect that the production rate is falling so fast that you return to and expensive oil regime rapidly. In my opinion less than a year. Given what actually happened was a fast collapses in both prices and demand it makes sense to think that the market might respond slowly to the situation i.e expectations of a continued rapid fall in production that impacted the new lower demand level would be low. But it does not really matter if the market initially does not really believe the situation as the months roll on and prices increase yet the real oil supply continues to fall the market can and will adjust.

Certainly it would be nice to get a quantitative model with a bit better numbers but its really not required and one can argue that the system is changing fast enough that any sort of generic model would probably not be all that useful you can effectively watch the events unfold in real time.

Or the model is wrong and the contribution of oil to the recent financial bubble was secondary they where not a unified bubble i.e the financial bubble was caused by the oil situation and the oil situation caused the financial bubble to form to offset falling real oil supplies. This was just a simple recession albeit intense one and oil should stabilize at some reasonable price. Supply for the new lower level of demand is ample.
The price might be a bit higher in dollar terms but this is only from simple monetary inflation. Plenty of spare capacity is present so any pressure on prices should bring more oil online. A price spike could form but its several years in the future if at all. We have a very good chance that efficiency gains could easily result in a balanced system with prices remaining on average fairly low.

If I'm right then we are dealing with a situation that changes on a monthly basis if I'm wrong then the divergence of possible outcomes becomes clear in a few months.

The market of course will decide when and how it wants to address either situation its its own master but my scenario changes fast enough that if its correct the market will be forced to move it will have no choice. For all intents and purposes its facing an oil embargo like effect this will show up fairly quickly no matter what the public information is it cannot be hidden.

Back of the envelope analysis will work in cases where the system as a whole will temporarily converge to a steady state. It's easy to tell if a system will temporarily converge, but not when.

For more in-depth analysis without having to result to numbers, Nassim Taleb says that Poincare helped develop the field of analysis in situ where qualitative properties of systems can be rigorously discussed, but not computed. I have not researched this.

But here's a small example, I think, of a back of the envelope analysis without numbers. If you are certain to die, but you do not know when, how does this impact your disposition toward living a human life?

Interesting opinion piece in the latest Time magazine called "Excluding the Extremist" by Justin Fox. He is referring to the financial advice of Peter Schiff and others who aren't necessarily mainstream.

"But there's a thriving line of academic research showing that including divergent opinions and models of how the world works makes groups better at solving problems"

That puts it fairly succinctly and I still think the quantitative analysis is possible. Unfortunately, the financial quants have given the term quantitative a bad rap.

BTW, Justin Fox has a book coming out next month called "The Myth of the Rational Market".

Economics is primarily human psychology, couldn't be further from physics.

Economics largely explores resource constraints, which is bean-counting levels of physics.

If you take the classical definition of "physics", sure. But chemistry could be said the be the physics of atoms and molecules. Biology could be the physics of organic chemistry. Psychology could be the physics of human perception, cognition, and socialization.

And regarding resource constraints, most bean counters don't have the training or inclination to do operations research analysis. Or are you lumping everyone who does tedious numbers-based work into the bean-counter category? :)

Bean-counting in terms of people imaging it as harder than it actually is.

To pooh pooh economics as mere bean-counting is to misunderestimate the psycho-linguistic powers of its vocabulary and tonality.

When was the last time you saw GDP being computed to include all "bads" and "disservices" generated by domestic enterprise?

When was the last time you saw an economics expert not dressed up in a throat choking monkey suit and not talking in monotone like Ben Stein?

710

Chaos is not supposed to be predictive, it's supposed to be explanatory, including the explanation about why it's impossible to make certain predictions is certain time frames with arbitrary accuracy due to the butterfly effect.

Chaos is the fundamental particle from which Order emerges in this realm.

The Buttefly Effect - think - Chaos is "magnetically" influenced by Consciousness and Will.

The BIG shift in my life was reading "Consciousness of the Atom" by Alice A Bailey, shortly after my Physics professor told me that science was trying to answer the question HOW not the question WHY.

Any organised system from an atom upwards is actually a living being with Spirit and Consciousness as well as Form. The reason we are alive and conscious is because the particles from which we are assembled are alive and conscious.

Connect the dots.