I think Megan Quinn Bachman and other Community Solutions folks may have a post on LEED certification and issues surrounding it in the not too distant future. They have talked to us about it.

In one LEED Certified home I saw, there was an amazingly large laundry room and an open two-story high living room. The house as a whole was way too large for the one woman living there. The house was in the "middle of nowhere" so that she would have to drive for long distances to buy anything. I am sure the woman could impress people with the LEED credentials, but it was hard for me to see that there was any real net energy savings.

I think the people involved in buying the Green Buildings really have to understand the bigger picture. It is too easy for it to be a nice "green" thing to do, without changing one's basic lifestyle. It reminds me a little of buying a diet Coke to eat with your brownie.

Around here there's a big push for a LEED certified "green hospital." But they want to build it on formerly-prime ag land, and included in the redevelopment was a high end subdivision (that is now having trouble being filled up with people). All this activity is taking place on the outskirts of city limits, with the city limits expanded to incorporate it, giving the development projects access to city sewer, water, street maintenance and police services at a time when budgets are being cut back and fees for services are going up.

Meanwhile, it turns out that because the hospital is new, it must comply with gargantuan though well intended building and ventilation standards that mean it will use MORE energy than the current hospital! And these same standards require automation of nearly everything so that windows can't be opened manually, for example. Without electricity the place will be useless it seems, and yet part of the reason for having a hospital here is that in case of disaster we are isolated. Well, couldn't a disaster take out power for an extended period? Yes. So how much back up power exists? Three days of diesel. Any plan to use renewable energy? No, too expensive.

Furthermore, all the existing doctors offices, which cluster around the current facility might need to be relocated to another set of yet to be built buildings since doctors here follow their patients in the hospital. But until then doctors are expected to drive back and forth, umpteen times per day.

In the discussions with the design team I brought up "boundary of analysis" and was basically told that they only assess within the project property itself.

So much for "green."

During the Transition Training weekend we did here in Rochester, NY back in March I met a man who has been doing solar installs and consulting for municipalities downstate NY. He was telling me how he went to a green energy conference in Boston last year and all the installers basically asked the LEED people to please take their website down, cease and desist, all in flowery installer language. The impression I get is LEED is pretty much a joke.

On your note about "boundary of analysis", Jason, it brings up for me the most profound dilemma about trying to really understand energy accounting. I started reading Vaclav Smil a little while ago, and admit I didn't fully comprehend most of it (very technical), but what I came away with is that there is really no accurate way to measure the conversion of energy from one form to another, given the difficulty of accounting for the utility, transportability, power, re-use potential and other characteristic factors of various forms.

The other issue is, of course, where to draw the boundary in any given analysis. According to the permaculture definition of a System Yield, it's the net energy stored, conserved, re-used AFTER the system has all its needs met, including the needs of the inhabitants, and all the resources used are replaced. The system boundary seems always to be expanding to include the whole globe...

As always, would like to hear your thoughts on these conundra.

Remind me of some "green" houses in San Francisco that cost like a few millions. So much for that idea... When anything "green" that ends up costing 3x, 5x what people normally paid -- I wonder what the point!!!
Same thing with Organic --- great if you have the money to buy "organic" for 3x the normal price. 99% of the people, probably, don't -- does that make a "green revolution"?

Same thing with Organic --- great if you have the money to buy "organic" for 3x the normal price. 99% of the people, probably, don't -- does that make a "green revolution"?

This points out a fundamental problem with "free market theory"-- prices don't reflect anything in reality. The so-called normal price is heavily subsidized three ways to sunday. The organic price is probably closer to the real cost of the produce. Either way you pay, it's just not included at the point of sale. All your farm, water, energy, DOD, sewage, Army Corps of Engineers work on the Mississippi, EPA, higher prices on things like Bay Shrimp due to farm-runoff-caused Dead Zones in the Gulf: these upstream and downstream costs are hidden from your purchase decision.

LEED is just crap but the architectural establishment suckers STUPID local government into supporting it.

Architects simply won't allow proper insulation and want to designs they always do--paper-thin walls, lots of glass, standard building construction methods that allow 'thermal bridges', inadequate air tightness but allows lots of meaningless gimmicks. To be a LEED-NC professional you must memorize a bunch of worthless 'green facts' for a $200 test.

The final product is a joke.

Energy Star run by DOE is based on simulated annual energy consumption and is definitely superior but the best real world savings is about 30% below standard new. I understand that commercial property developers consider Energy Star more realistic that LEED and price those properties higher.

Passive House looks at a 90% reduction below standard new but does require many lifestyle changes. Rooms are smaller, windows are for passive solar heating, efficencies of appliances is very high. Water usage is restricted.
Still if we are running out of energy it is very possible that a Passive House lifestyle would survive a drastic reduction in energy with ease.

"LEED is just crap but the architectural establishment suckers STUPID local government into supporting it."

Gee, maj, don't hold it all in. Let it out and tell us how your REALLY feel about it. And perhaps with a few more CAPs this time! ;-}