 | Fibber McGee, Molly, and Your Energy Future | The Oil Drum: Campfire | On Independence, Energy Subsidy, and Freedom |  |
179 comments on Dopamine Returned on Energy Invested (DREI)?
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179 comments on Dopamine Returned on Energy Invested (DREI)?
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You're not drawing the distinction between competitors and spectators. Spectating is a passive activity; competing in sports takes skill and hard work. I can't personally comment on the skill and work involved in truck and tractor pulls, but in other motorsports it's considerable. Recreation falls somewhere in between, but usually it's closer to passive spectating. In your examples, the trucks and bikes are status symbols for display. It's a stretch to even call them recreation.
dwcal,
Absolutely correct and thank you for pointing out, there is a great difference between the passive observer and the practitioner. I do not doubt the skill of the motocross rider, the NASCAR pilot, or the quarterback. The line blurs with some examples, as per the Dentist dressed up in his leathers on the Harley. I think he/she is as much an observer as a practitioner, maybe more of an observer. They ride in groups, visual impact is important, and seem to always be ready for a group camera shot of the outlaws, as look at me, leather everywhere, and this weekend, I'm BAD. I see them regularly up at the Texaco, gassing up for the next leg, across the Hogs Back. Their poses are practiced. I guess my real beef is with the gasoline engine, or engines of any kind (maybe the definition of a Luddite?). For the life of me, I don't understand the fascination. Personally, I'd rather walk, ride a bike, roll down the hill (in a barrel), or just fall off of the cliff. I think that maybe, as a culture, we've all seen too many editions of Smokey and the Bandit, Dukes of Hazard, or for the more recent arrivals, the Transformer cartoons/movies. I'll take Superman, he flew around on his own steam.
Best from the Fremont
All ICE vehicles are absurd, bizarre and obscenely wasteful. At least these kids are getting some thrill out of the amazing power the miracle substance oil provides. Most of us get into vehicles with the power of dozens, scores...of horses and proceed to be bored to tears by our daily commutes.
What would people from two hundred short years ago if an individual drove around in a carriage pulled by scores of horses? It would surely be seen as beyond bizarre. Yet most do the equivalent every day with no sense of wonder or strangeness.
The absurdity and obscenity of our daily lives are completely lost on pretty much everyone.
Better be careful. Once your eyes become opened to the absurdity and obscenity of it all, your perspective turns you into an outcast.
I cast myself out of the mainstream fairly forcefully long, long ago. One of the joys of a forum like this is bumping into others who have some glimmering of the insanity we live every day.
Yup....It's a waste of time and energy...As in much the same way that the whole website The Oil Drum is a waste of time and energy...Here you just have a bunch of eggheads who write posts back and forth to convince themselves how brilliant, principled, savy or just plain "green" and try to one-up each other...Brother, do you think this site actually does anything?...I will agree it's entertaining, but that is about it...Just a certain folks are entertained by motor sports...Let's sum up shall we?...One day the world will have insufficient oil, a substitute will emerge and life will go on...Feel better now???
Don't undervalue entertainment. I haven't heard egghead in many a moon.
Glad you like it...I'm an old and cranky fossil...We remember such terms...LOL
Hello Aviator202,
I respectfully Disagree. TOD,EB,LATOC,DIEOFF, and other websites, plus books, plus orgs like ASPO and Transition Towns, etc, are having a decided, but gradual viral effect upon the populace. Please go back through the archives to see how much Cornucopianism has diminished, both in the TOD postings, and also in the MSM.
I hope you are doing your part to spread Peak Outreach, too:
Do you do the Yeasty half-glass Peakoil Shoutout in public?
Do you leave Peak Outreach cards in lots of places?
Have you emailed Google asking for the "I'm Feeling Unlucky" button on their Search Homepage?
Have you emailed Tiger Woods website asking for him to plow defunct golf courses?
Have you emailed your elected officials? and so on...
Please don't forget that TOD now has a global reach and many govt & corp orgs study what is happening here. Recall the response from SS, F_F, Euan, and many others work on Ghawar.
Thanks for your respect...Although if I hear the word "viral" again I may scream...I know this, the 4% of the population that owns everything likes it just like it is....that's where their fortunes come from...I despair of grass roots movements...Haven't seen one in the U.S. even slightly effective in over 30 years...Now France, there's a different story...Sadly, I believe there is a reason the U.S. is armed to the teeth...I read somewhere our military has as much firepower as the next 200 largest countries combined...Now why is that???....I think I know...
The conclusion you reached is the perfect justification for having The Oil Drum.
If you're right about it, then we're all lucky. If you're wrong, how long can you tread water?
This site is useless just like those Libraries and Universities.. just a bunch of people gathering to talk, write, think and compare notes. Let's just boil it down to a hasty soundbite and be done with it.
Maybe yes, maybe no...Well, this site is interactive and current, unlike Matt Simmons book...copyright 2004...and he probably worked on it for a few years so the info there is going on 7 years old...like most libraries...I just think the Oil Drum is a bunch of bright folks doing a LOT of talking....But I think VERY little action comes of it...Shakespeare said something about sound and fury signifying nothing...That is my point...
If you've been reading a substantial amount of the Oil Drum, you'd have caught several glimpses of the actions that countless posters here are undertaking, while the two facets of the issue (talk/action) seem to run parallel.. ie, my actions are not necessarily a result of this discussion.. but this discussion certainly lets me know that I'm not the only one who has been grinding on the topic.
It's not just to break some kind of isolation, either. If I'm getting the sense that we're on increasingly shaky ground, my desire to leap has to be informed by the need to look.. it's a complex situation, and this is one (the one) place where I feel I can get a bit of a vantage-point.. AND it's one of very few places where I've found, in today's political climate, a conversation that manages to allow people from a range of backgrounds and differing ideas to keep an adult conversation going about it. It does get childish sometimes, and I've been drawn in to it too.. but generally it stays enough above the adolescent level that I can go in without waders. I think that alone Signifies something.
..and there's a lot to be learned from old books. You just have to remember what that is, and what it is not.
Thanks for the thoughts,
Bob
Aviator, how could you possibly know what's going on in the countless places on Earth people are viewing this site? Yes, it's obvious there is a lot of discussion here but beyond that everything you assert is just a feeling you have. There are plenty of posters here who are very, very engaged and I can't stress enough how what I've learned here goes into what I'm doing in the physical world.
Aviator202 wrote;
"One day the world will have insufficient oil, a substitute will emerge and life will go on...Feel better now???"
Aviator, this is typical of the first stage of grief. There is;
- Denial ("There must be a substitute that will keep our lifestyle going [You Are Here])
- Anger ("How could they let that happen?")
- Bargaining ("Maybe it won't be so bad? Maybe everyone will magically use much less energy?")
- Depression ("Oh, how will I ever be able to survive on a 1920's energy budget?")
- Acceptance ("Well, no use crying over spilled milk")
Do you have any idea what will replace the amount of energy at the level of oil production we currently produce? Do you have an engineering degree so that you can at least talk to the scale and EROEI of what would be required to do so?
Optimism can be underrated, though it can also become a blinder (or a crutch).
"if I hear the word "viral" again I may scream"
Let it all out, you'll feel a lot better...
All ICE vehicles are absurd, bizarre and obscenely wasteful.
Really? Roto tillers, trucks to move produce to market, ambulances, fire trucks - all obscene?
Good points. I was being a bit sweeping. I was thinking primarily of commuter cars.
I'm sure produce trucks, ambulances...could also be made to be more energy efficient than most are built now. But mostly I think one of the strongest arguments for rationing gas as we head into decline is so that there is enough for these vital functions for as long as possible. Also, though I am generally quite skeptical about biofuels, limited development for just these functions does seem prudent (but unlikely).
As for rototillers, I'm more of a no-till guy myself, but I know they can be quite useful in some situations where you have compact soil and no way to ship in lots of compost for raised beds....
I think the title of this threat pretty much captures the essence. My guess is that pre FF humanity engaged in other, though similar (from a dopamine-release point of view) behavior - perhaps race horses until they dropped...
WeekendPeak