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25 comments on Political sensitivities

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ashaddock on October 29, 2005 - 11:09am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
<< Does it piss me off every time I fill up my gas tank to know that I'm adding to those billions that the oil companies are making?>>

It seems to me that the oil companies are owned by shareholders who, when they purchased shares, paid a price which reflected the anticipated future profits or cash flows of the underlying company.  Those who have bought shares in Exxon over the last year have paid quite a high price for those shares and those future cash flows.

Now for politicians to arbitrarily change the rules and tax, or take away part of those cash flows has not even a sniff of fairness about it.

As another poster pointed out, much of the so called "windfall" cash flow is going to exploration, as well as dividends and stock buy backs to those who invested in these companies in the first place.

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Descolada on October 29, 2005 - 11:55am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Normally, I would agree with you.  But with Exxon-Mobile posting $100 billion dollars in profit, I think there has to be a little bit of a change in this thinking.  

I'm still slightly iffy on the winfall profits tax.  If I knew for certain that that money would be spent reducing the debt, or paying for research on next generation, I'd be all for it.  However, the overwhelming feeling I'm getting is that the government would just use those profits for more of the same; stupid taxcuts, stupid programs, waste of money in general.  But, I do not support the oil companies efforts for new exploration.  That's not going to yield anything, and exploration over the last few years has been an investment loss anyway for the companies.  

I mean.. where is the responsible place to put this money?  I can't honestly think of anything on either the government side or the business side that warrants it.  

Sorry for the poor quality of the post, btw.  I'm at work, and trying to get it in during a break.  

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GJ on October 29, 2005 - 6:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"But with Exxon-Mobile posting $100 billion dollars in profit..."

Not true, Exxon posted $100 billion in SALES in the quarter ending 30Sep2005, and $9 billion in profits.  

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Twilight on October 29, 2005 - 12:19pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Why do I give a rat's ass about the investors in any particular oil company, or what assumptions they may or may not have made?  Maybe they made bad a choice.  Whoever said returns were guaranteed?  Should Enron have been allowed to continue breaking the law just because a lot of people were going to lose their investments?  What if I bought a gas guzzler because I believed gas prices would not go up - why is the risk of the man who buys stock more protected than the risk of the man who buys a car?  

For that matter, what about the man who invests in GM stock - we allow Exxon to run up prices and profits on a captive market, and drive GM stock into the toilet.  I guess it's GM's fault for failing to get a bunch of auto industry whores into the Whitehouse.  Free market my ass.

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GreyZone on October 29, 2005 - 12:28pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Enron broke the law. How are the oil companies breaking the law? I welcome higher prices. Will it be painful? You are darned right it will! And pain and high price are still the best levers to exert change on people in this country.

What do you want? A return to 18 cent a gallon oil while it's running out? This is exactly what peak oil predicted - rising prices, volatility in markets, all of which give openings to alternative energy sources. The key is less about what big oil will do but what will people do to get out from under big oil?

And given that so many people still drive gas guzzler SUVs and commute 50 miles to work, I don't feel particularly sorry for them yet. Those are choices that they can change very quickly if they choose to do so. If everyone was driving fuel efficient hybrids, living close to where they work, and we moved far more goods by rail than truck, maybe I'd feel differently but I don't think so.

High prices are part of the cure. Consider this as chemotherapy to get rid of the oil cancer. It will hurt like hell but the alternative is worse.

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Twilight on October 29, 2005 - 1:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I have wanted higher fuel prices for decades, with the revenue funneled into non fossil fuel R&D and infrastructure.  If we had done this years ago we would not be in such a pickle now.  The oil companies would have fought this tooth and nail as bad for profits.  Now suddenly higher fuel prices are great, as long as they get to keep the money.  Oil is an industry that is supported and protected by my tax dollars, so no they don't have a right to rip me off with the product they supply.  It is not functioning as a free market, and they are not entitled to unlimited profit from a captive customer base.
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bigfootvegan on October 30, 2005 - 8:27am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
slightly off topic but just saw this on the front page of our business paper in the uk.

http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Stories.aspx?General%20Motors%20in%20crisis%20as%20its%20car%20sale s%20plummet&StoryID=348B4CED-FEFC-49EA-8686-AB110C1F75F2&SectionID=F3B76EF0-7991-4389-B72E-D 07EB5AA1CEE

GENERAL Motors will this week reveal that sales collapsed in October, taking its US market share to a 25-year low and fuelling fresh fears that the world's largest carmaker is heading towards bankruptcy. Its US sales dropped 26% compared with the same month last year, according to early estimates, putting its monthly US market share at 20.5% - the lowest since at least 1980.

On a totally seperate note, I have been regularly typing in "peak oil" into google, when I started 3 months ago it was 1.7 million hits,it slowly whent up to 2.1million by last week. today its gone down to 1.7million is it a sunday thing? or something more sinister?

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bigfootvegan on October 30, 2005 - 12:02pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
* On Saturday, GM signed a memorandum of understanding with Chinese carmaker SAIC to explore opportunities for energy efficient and environmentally friendly hybrid cars in China.
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