<Open ThreadThe Oil DrumUnderstanding the oil patch>

31 comments on Julian Darley and The Relocalization Movement

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unplanner on November 19, 2005 - 4:17am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Yes there are ways to create fertile soil where there is none.  It does take time and a decent sized initial investment of human/animal/machine labor.

Simple composting and spreading is a start. Jevons adds to this with a fundementally different way to grow crops using double dug raised beds.  Check it out at http://www.growbiointensive.org/biointensive/GROW-BIOINTENSIVE.html .

Another option is to try Lion Kuntz EcoSyn method
http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Ecosyn/IBS_Math.html .  Its harder to explain, but permits a more carnivorous diet than Jevons method.  

There are no doubt other methods out there as well.  All require an investment of time and resources to complete, which is why you don't see land returning to agriculture after development.  It IS possible.  It ISN'T easy.  It won't happen until the fossil fuel subsidy for agriculture is with drawn.  Only then will things change and people start ripping out blacktop and putting in farms.

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Dan Ur on November 19, 2005 - 4:47am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Have you ever double dug a raised bed?  Back breaking work!!  I have, It is time consuming and can work wonders over time,, I repeat over TIME.  

 I have pulled tons of rock out of the ground, ( mostly from a wooded area they planted houses on ), Back breaking work. Over time you can get enough to feed yourself and maybe a few others.

 I have worked soil that had laid fallow for a decade, very good soil, wonderful soil, rich full of life, But I worked hard to get my crops, same result feed me and few others at max.

 When we lose the OIL we will lose a lot of people, and have chaos for years,  If you happen to live in a protected area, sure you can grow for yourself and a few others.

 Have you done it, year on year, have you lived off the land?  Do you know where the wild berrys grow? The plants you can eat, while your crops are getting their first shoots up?  IF you think it will be easy!! Think 3 or more times harder than you are now!!

 Trust me!! LIFE off the land with only your hand labor is not easy!!

 Now Feed the rest of the world too, or teach them to live like you!  Most city kids don't even know what a turnip is?
 Will they know that Kale is good after the first frost, and that carrots really do need soft loamy soil and cool weather to grow big and sweet?

 Oh and name me four (4) plants that grow in most lawns that you can eat?
 

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copperweaver on November 19, 2005 - 5:17am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
clover, plantane, dandylions and grass??
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AlexC on November 19, 2005 - 4:02pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I agree Dan Ur, the challenge is a large one. But we are not talking the end of the oil when peak oil arrives, hence the large debate on depletion rates.

We could well have several decades of expensive oil to learn. This is when i think the grass roots movements will expand at a rapid rate largely bypassing the government, i also think one of the major factors will be where you live. I live in the UK and believe while it might be very tough for awhile, but i hope our government will do the right things if given the chance and enough public pressure once peak oil is more known. This could range from grants for urban gardens to TV programs on living sustainability, who knows.

To simply say "When we lose the OIL we will lose a lot of people, and have chaos for years" is maybe one way things could go, but i would argue that is an unlikely and extreme outcome.

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copperweaver on November 19, 2005 - 4:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I just don't see the world economy will ajusting to an increase in oil price and shortage of supply.  At least not in  the United States.  I think when folks in this county are nolonger able to live the glutonous lifestyle we have become addicted to there will be extreme social chaos.  Remember guns are very available in the US and lots of people have them. We also have to contend with global climate change etc...  Look at how we handled the crisis in New Orleans.  Thin Food production and distribution are so heavily dependent on cheep fossil fuels.  I see most of the remaining oil being horded and used by millitaries to secure and protect  what is available regionally.  I wish I were more of an  optimist, but we are talking about to human beings here... and there are no easy solutions.  Time will tell............
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LevinK on November 21, 2005 - 4:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
<quote>..At least not in  the United States...</quote>

Yeah sometimes I tend to think to Peak Oil as "Peak USA".
We are the only country in the world that has planned its entire life around plentiful fossil fuels. Most other countries have or at least work hard on their plan "B" - in Germany or France you can very easily live without a car of your own; governments stimulate renewables and nuclear energy (soon to come back in Germany) and people generally like to live closer to each other. And maybe more importantly - people has not forgotten where they came from. It is the rich history of wars, crisises and suffering that made people learn that sticking together is the only chance for long-term survival.

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Southsider1 on November 22, 2005 - 3:18am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Well, isn't it ironic that Henry Ford, the man who created the modern automobile industry, is also credited with the assertion that "history is bunk": a very American belief. It would appear that the United States is about to have its own nasty encounter with History.
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LevinK on November 22, 2005 - 11:01am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Well this is pretty arrogantic thought. When you look at the past you see times and times in which people make the same mistakes. What makes us so special? We would be special indeed if we could identify these patterns and avoid them, but denying the existence of history obviously leads in the opposite way.
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Donal on November 22, 2005 - 12:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history we made today."
Henry Ford, Interview in Chicago Tribune, May 25th, 1916

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24950.html

I wonder what the question was?

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unplanner on November 21, 2005 - 12:56am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Well, I never did say it would be easy.  
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