26 comments on CIBC in more detail, and the first Chevron debate
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26 comments on CIBC in more detail, and the first Chevron debate
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Bullshit. Sorry, I'm not buying that assumption. Deepwater production is no different from any other kind of conventional source--it is a matter of economics and new "plays". In fact, I was shocked to see that ASPO has deepwater production at 12/mbpd by 2010 as you recently noted citing their latest newsletter. A lot of things have to go right for that to be true.
There seems to be a lot of playing around with definitions here and this only adds to the general confusion about available supply in the 2006 to 2010 period.
To be clear, an unconventional fossil fuels source, at least for liquids, includes IMHO
- oil (tar, bitumen) sands eg. Alberta, Canada
- extra heavy crude resources eg. Orinoco, Venezuela
- Coal-to-liquids (CTL) or (gas-to-liquids) GTL
- Oil shales (marl rock containing kerogen - sigh)
Now, this is an important point. Cornucopians like Michael Lynch would argue that new "plays" involving my list above make the future look good (aside from very questionable assumptions that EOR technology increase URR yields over time in mature oil provinces -- in almost all cases, technology only pushes the production curve to the left (immediate gratification) and results in a sharper drop-off in the tail (junkie runs out of drugs more quickly) without increasing the ultimate yield. As we've noted on previous threads recently, NGLs should be taken more seriously as far as future all liquids supply goes. Fine. But really, for conventional crude oil, which is the greatest thing that ever happened energy-wise, there really is no substitute at this point in time, is there?Do you have any scientific evidence to substantiate this statement? I don't mean anecdotal evidence.
In regard to the increased rate of decline that this gives after major production you have only to look at the two major Russian fields (Romashkino and Samotlar), Yibal, and the North Sea to see examples where the decline rate gets over 10%. Incidentally as Cantarell goes over the top that is also what is being predicted for it (14%).
I agree with you that the OOIP does not change. The question is whether technology changes the recovery rate (=% of OOIP ultimately recovered). In order for your reasoning to work, I believe you are committed to the position that technology does not change the recovery rate. That seems a little extreme. What scientific evidence do you have to support that view?
I've looked at the nonsense on your Peak Oil Debunked website. I made an assertion and both HO and me have now provided some evidence to back it up. In science--you are perhaps unfamiliar with the nature of this subject--a hypothesis is stated and as new evidence comes to light, this hypothesis is either contradicted (falsified in the language of Popper) or the evidence is consistent with the hypothesis. So why don't you provide us with some evidence that shows that we're wrong? Then we can talk about it. In some cases I've seen, it appears EOR does perhaps seem to increase the URR. My original assertion may not apply in all cases but does seem to apply in those cases where we have the best production history. What's gained on the front end from EOR is lost on the backend from very large decline rates. Unfortunately, there is uncertainty because the URR is not actually known beforehand with an unshakeable degree of confidence. However, that is why Stuart and others use the Hubbert Linearization--to predict the URR after a field is mature. The URR seems to be known to a good degree of confidence after approximately 50% of its predicted production has occurred but may be inferred before that in its production history using a statistical line fit. The method seems to work pretty well in the best test cases we have. Stuart has been working this out for months now with more precision than anyone else, IMHO, working in this field.
I am not writing this just to address a jerk like you--it's also general information for readers of TOD. Does the word "troll" have any particular meaning to you in this context? Please, contribute some useful information if you have any. TOD is reality-based. If you're looking for anecdotal evidence, go visit Mike Ruppert's website or some other appropriate place (like the EIA forecasts, the IEA forecasts--these are especially recommended--, CERA, Lynch or Mr. Abiotic Oil himself, Jerome Corsi. Otherwise, get lost.
I think there is a different URR associated with each successive level of technology. For example, suppose you went back to the day of Colonel Drake, and froze technology at that level. How much total oil could you recover if you deployed Colonel Drake technology to its maximal capability? That would be the URR with Colonel Drake level technology. It's clear that deepwater oil is not included in that URR. Which leads me to believe that the technological advances since Colonel Drake's time are associated with a larger URR. You can recover more oil with better technology.
That doesn't mean that peak oil is infinitely far into the future. It means that it might be farther into the future (or less serious) than you expect if you don't analyze technological gains very carefully.
Anyway, it's a complicated but important subject. I hope we can talk about in more detail sometime on The Oil Drum. Thanks for the link. I'll read it.
If you need any other anecdotal evidence, let me know. It's the only kind of ever use.
Here's a discussion of Valhall in the North Sea.
I agree with you. It is a little bit odd how people classify conventional/unconventional.
On the other hand:
Who cares? The point is that we consume 85 mbpd. So we need to supply that much. This rate increases by anywhere from 1% to 2.5% in any given year(with exceptions, of course). But as long as supply keeps up with demand-rate there is no problem.
Peak-oil is not a new idea, but the fervant debate surrounding it is. As proof, this website and all its popularity has only been happening for less than 6 months(please correct me if I'm wrong).
The key is to document predictions and who they are coming from. With a database of these predictions, we can very quickly identify who is full of it and who has a grasp on the truth.
When I track my data, I have 3-4 lines for every producing country. The first is BP's, then I have two separate lines for the EIA's different tables, and then a fourth for maybe another EIA table or a 3rd source. It doesn't matter that EIA doesn't match BP. Know that they don't and WHY.
The big mystery to me is how we are going to match record forecast demand in 2006 with supply. Will it be Saudi? Will it be Angola? It's not going to be Canada, not this year, at least.
These numbers are fairly simple. It will be pretty hard to dupe the oil community. Price will be a pretty good indicator to what is going on in 2006. So far, no crisis.
I think you put your finger on the bottom line. There may be all this conventional (land and deep sea) and unconventional oil sources but can those reserves be brought to market? At some point we get into splitting hairs in our discussions.
Is field development or refining restricting supply? Are prices or difficulty in maintaining platforms the choke point? Are unconventional not producing because conventional hasn't been limiting enough to make tar sands attractive economically? There is so much complexity in the overall, world supply of liquids that one can't point to a single issue as the major area of concern.
The converse of this is that to maintain (and grow) worldwide supply, all these diverse areas must increase simultaneously to offset conventional oil declines. Declines defined as shrinking daily output not field size. This is the part I have trouble with. Going forward it will be ever more difficult to remain on schedule on all the difficult projects. The oil supply is getting exponentially more complex than a decade ago. Complex things can be very efficient but they are also much easier to break or disrupt. I think the cornucopians discount the effect of the added complexity. As you say, 2006 should tell us what we can do and what we can't.