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83 comments on Alberta oil sands on 60 Minutes

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Jack Greene on January 22, 2006 - 9:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Sasquatch,

I have been wondering if Canada breaks up that we might not acquire some extra states. If Quebec goes out, the possibility of the provinces going their own way, possibly in blocs like the Atlatnic Maritimes is possible. We might get Alberta as the 51st or 52nd state.

That is more likely (and not very likely I think) than our invading Canada. The American people would not go for it. We will go through a great deal of economic adjustment instead of doing something incredibly mean spirited and greedy.
 

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Nate Hagens on January 22, 2006 - 10:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
We ARE mean spirited and greedy. So are Canadians and so are Chinese and ...Some societies are LESS mean and LESS greedy than others but evolution has made us resource acquisition machines. I do not dispute reciprocal altruism and genuine sacrifice for ones tribe, but lets face it - increased energy per capita has made everyone pretty much June and Ward Cleavers. Decreased energy per capita... how does George Monbiot quote it "we'll be fighting like cats in a sack'.

It may not even be viewed as a bad thing when/if the time comes - US protects canada militarily in exchange for resource flow. I think there was a conservative think tank put out a piece in 2005 implying that NAFTA was the groundwork for an economic/military/resource conglomerate (I'll try and find the link)

I dont think there will ever be a 'battle', but in truth Ive never really researched it. I did try to look at [LATOC www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net] but couldnt find any details.

p.s. Canadians (probably due to more degree cooling days) actually consume more oil per capita than americans...

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Nate Hagens on January 22, 2006 - 10:11pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
oops - meant 'degree heating days'. Though the way things are going one never knows...;)
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Jack Greene on January 23, 2006 - 8:53am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
sasquatch,

Canadians do use more energy per capita than Americans. That is the last table I saw just before Christmas.

But we agree that it will not be a military action.

NAFTA does work, mostly, for our benefit. It does help integration of the economies and we can get a great deal from Canada. But with rising transportation costs in the future, that makes good sense for them too.

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praetzel on January 23, 2006 - 9:26am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Yes we do use more energy.  My guess is that we have similar building standards and colder weather.  I have to ride my winter bicycle to work 4 to 5 months each year and this is in the warm south and I use my summer bike whenever possible.
On this university campus nearly every building has NO insulation!  The new buildings have about 2".  The home standards changed in 1991 and were upped from 4 to 6" in the walls.  My father was doing that for custom homes in the late 1960's.  We have an industry that only adopts whatever standards we can get the government to pass.

Energy is so cheap that nobody cares yet.
Come on - taxes on my house are over 2x what it costs for natural gas, hydro and phone.  The car is similar - purchase, maintaince and insurance dwarfing fuel costs.
In the case of my 1991 Chevy Sprint (around 60 mpg US) it cost more for brake and exhaust repair than gas!

"Green" friends live in nice neighbourhoods with good "community" but pay for it with old houses that have no insulation to speak of.
We sure see a lot more trucks / SUV'ish things on the roads in Michigan than here although I see enough mini-vans and that ilk to make me puke.  Cars choking the streets and surburbia out the wazoo is the way we've gone too.  Howver, unlike friends in the USA, up here you don't pick neighbourhoods because they are safe or because the schools  are not going to have the roof collapse in winter.

Going into a different threat.

I want to believe in the book Fire and Ice and that we are diverging from the USA.  Frankly the USA scares the @#$#@$ out of me.  The government is disconnected from the people and US moderates / progressives I know are getting pretty scared of the way their country is going - but it doesn't seem to stop.  There should have been riots over Robberts nomination to the court and I see that Alito will likely walk right in without a sacrifical Dem in the way.

My only consolidation is that you're destroying your own country now with the mountain top removal for coal; having the polluters in charge of the EPA etc etc - except that we're also getting the mercury in the air ...

There are very progressive factions within the USA - but I've pretty well given up on them.  With thousands of white collar jobs now going overseas where PHDs are a dime-a-dozen you're not going to have a middle class much longer.  It's a great place if you're rich or have a marketable skill.

The USA dream that I grew up in during the 60's is dead, gone and burried.  The fangs are bare now, the blood is dripping - nobody harbours illusions about what the country is about except perhaps our Regressive Conservative party up here.

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Jack Greene on January 24, 2006 - 10:25am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
If there were riots over a very intelligent jurist who happens to be conservative, than it would have only happened in a blue state.

I work in construction and we are introducing styrofoam block construction that was developed in Canada with an R rating of 40 - well above the required 18 and very good.

I do find it funny that in colleges the ratio of liberals to conservatives for professors is about 9 to 1, while in the military for officers it is flipped and is 7 to 1 or 6 to 1.

America is not dead yet.

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wkwillis on January 25, 2006 - 6:31am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
As the college professors (and journalists) make more money, they tend to go red. As the military officers get screwed on pension and medical benefits (and get sent to Iraq) they tend to go blue. Things are reequilibriating.
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