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106 comments on Bush to GM and Ford: Build a Better Car

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ldwalaska on January 28, 2006 - 5:29pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I have yet to hear of a Honda or Toyota hybrid that met its actual EPA mileage rating.

The VW TDIs are an outstanding example of a clean diesel that does what the manufacture says in a car that is reasonable. The downside for greenies is the "diesel" fuel.

The Prius and Insight also face a recycling challenge given the lead acid batteries at the core of the cars' electrical systems.  When there are enough of these "nice trys" in circulation, then that nasty issue will surface to blemish the hype.  Right now, they are merely the rich man's feel good and the greenies' example of "doing it right".

The problem is resolving the major use of hydrocarbon resources by replacing power generation with . . . NUKES.  Yeah, nuclear power plants to replace all of those NG power plants.

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Oil CEO on January 28, 2006 - 5:48pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Good point(s). VW deserves credit. They always have. VW is the "real" GM.
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odograph on January 28, 2006 - 7:58pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Actually, this is what hybrid owners usually classify as FUD.   Sewing of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

The fact is that in all the statistical measures of real-world performance, in the US market, hybrids claim top mileage.

So the EPA overshot in their euphoria.  Big deal.

Diesels are also very good, and if the California EPA had let me buy one, I probably would have had one before my Prius arrived, but they didn't.  FWIW,

real-world Prius mpg: 47.6
real-world Jetta TDI mpg: 40.3

I compared 2005s to 2005s, and chose a pretty much random VW.  Feel free to pick another:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList

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pianoguy on January 29, 2006 - 1:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Battery recycling has already been factored into Toyota's life-cycle analysis of the Prius. Even with it, the Prius' total lifetime energy consumption is half or less than that of a similar-sized conventional car.

Most people are unaware that the Prius' #1 design goal was to create less pollution from cradle to grave. High fuel economy was a secondary result of that design premise. See Hideshi Itazaki's "The Prius that Shook the World," about the original 1998 Prius. (Available somewhere online as a PDF - I'll look for the link if anyone's interested.)

As for the Prius and EPA numbers - they're highly variable, but yes, some owners achieve or even comfortably exceed them. My 2005 Prius gets about 95% of the EPA estimate - 52.5 mpg versus the EPA's 55 - which is closer than most drivers of conventional cars get. One's particular driving conditions have a huge impact on mpg.

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