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55 comments on Wilma Category 5: Lowest Pressure Ever

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sekiyu on October 19, 2005 - 11:15pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Pardon me, but this is a claim that a weather ray gun is being used to send hurricanes to attack America. There is absolutely no evidence to believe this speculation. The claim is supported only by references to a website that breathlessly covers every alleged mystery dreamed up by human pseudo science.
As usual, people who assert this kind of stuff claim special rights in the marketplace of ideas. They say we have to deal with their "evidence" of several undeniably large hurricanes PLUS a complete fantasy about a ray gun. But there are better ways to explain why so many hurricanes have formed, and real scientists are using real scientific methods to do just that. The old switcheroo trick in the pseudo science con game is to point at effect, shout a lot, and hope people will get worked up enough to ignore the total lack of evidence for the asserted cause. But the people who use this site are not a bunch of mouthbreathers seeking excitement in place of tonight's drivel on reality TV. Show us one scintilla of compelling evidence that a weather ray gun that can spawn and control hurricanes exists. And don't cite that hokum on "mission enterprise."
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paradox on October 20, 2005 - 4:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
No evidence, hum? It's not like a city vanished or something. No wait it did!

Not so long ago, the Church did a nasty trick on Galilleo for lacking faith.

Now, it seems Science has taken up the gauntlet. Never mind for those who dare speak against her holy facade of methods. Never mind, too, that the majority of scientists have often been proven wrong during paradigm shifts.

Just curious. How do you explain Ophelia? You recall her dancing, right? You recall all the computer models being confused? You can see her sudden shift to the Atlantic, as those bands appear?

I happen to have some nifty gifs on my computer. They show her eye, but with a nice triangular shape with 60 degree angles were one would expect a smooth barrel. On IR and visible, if you can believe that. Now, to me, a 60 degree triangle in the middle of a hurricane speaks quite loudly. More so then a fantasy.

So, do we have a fluid specialist in the house to explain?

Tell me too, where all the scientists got it so wrong predicting the strength increase of Wilma? Ah, it's an uncertain science. There's lots of factor. It's unpredictable. The outcome varies according to which model you might use. Rinse, lather, repeat. This "scientific" attitude is certainly nothing like that of a pseudo scientist, right?

I'm curious. Really, curiousity is the first step to understanding. Not methods.

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mikeB on October 20, 2005 - 8:15am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Excuse me, but your logic is--shall we say--fucked.

"There's a lot we can't explain about Ophelia. Therefore, she was guided by a ray gun."

Argument to ignorance, which is a FALLACY.

http://skepdic.com/ignorance.html

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paradox on October 20, 2005 - 3:48pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Especially when you give on yourself the right to put words in my mouth. Did I talk about a ray gun? In any post?

Look deep.

I'm trying to open your eyes to a reality but you fling the skepdic at me. Ultimately, skepticism leads to mental abortion.

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drew on October 21, 2005 - 8:22am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
If you desire to speak of LOGIC, then referring to a Ray Gun is a STRAWMAN argument.  It is a contrived misrepresentation.  People here (and anywhere) then put faith into the strawman without a proper inquiry...choosing ingnorance.

Being willfully ignorant is anyone's choice, of course.  I respect those who admit they don't want to know.  Admitting it is better than standing behind a strawman.

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sekiyu on October 22, 2005 - 1:35am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hang on there. We are being shown images of hurricanes allegedly manipulated by some sort of electromagnetic force targeted by a device. That describes a ray gun. And if that conclusion is incorrect, then the proponents of the manipulated hurricane theory can fill us in on the missing details, a hole wider than Wilma's eye. At present, all we have from them are suggestions that pretty much indicate they're talking about a ray gun (keep in mind that a gun can be an enormous device). You can't build a strawman argument if the other side is only blowing hot air.
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mikeB on October 20, 2005 - 8:13am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Thank you, s. Took the words right out of my mouth.
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sekiyu on October 20, 2005 - 9:56am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
same here MikeB. We've been doing an online version of cleaning the Augean stables. Old Hercules had neither ray gun nor keyboard, so he diverted a couple of rivers instead. A bit of a shame, really, as compared to the present fetid business plenty of good BS went to down to the deep.
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timber on October 20, 2005 - 11:48am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
My friedns and relatives believe 'We're running out of oil.' just as much as they believe 'Someone is controling the weather.' I guess scientific proof is in the eye of the beholder.
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Donal on October 20, 2005 - 12:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I believe we're running out of cheap oil.  If someone can control the weather to the point of creating and directing Cat 5 hurricanes, they probably deserve to rule the world.  

I once read a series of sci-fi stories about a weather council becoming the world's governing body.  As I recall, they sent heat-resistant ships to the sun to modulate the amount of sunlight hitting any area on Earth, which gave them unanticipated political power.

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sekiyu on October 20, 2005 - 12:55pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Apples and oranges, amigo. Good peak oil arguments are an hypothesis that supplies are finite and that we've consumed nearly half of them. There are good reasons to believe the supply of oil is finite. There are plausible reasons to believe that we might be about to peak out in our exploitation of those resources, especially because we've seen that happen in a very large number of countries.
We have to guess about oil reserves because so many countries won't furnish the requisite data. So there is lots of uncertainty about peak. Note that one doesn't have to bring in a hidden conspiracy and other completely speculative mechanisms to explain why we can't get the data.
Contrast the above with the assertions that ray guns or other implements are controlling the weather. A few efforts at cloud seeding do not a ray gun make.
When the ray-gun club produces evidence of one (and no, radar shots of "manipulated" hurricanes aren't evidence of the gun), then we can talk facts - as we usually do about peak oil on this list until people who have other agendas interrupt the discussion. Surely there are other places on the net where they'd feel more comfortable. Maybe they'd even get to feel one of those guns...
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timber on October 20, 2005 - 1:28pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I am 100% with you on peak oil. I show the information to people I know and they see conspiracy. They believe this whole peak oil thing is created by the oil companies to make money. Thanks for this space where I can feel sane.
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55 comments on Wilma Category 5: Lowest Pressure Ever

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