I'd like to discuss what motives there might be of various entities to claim there is more (or less) oil in our future - not whether they are right or wrong, just their motives.

For example, I believe that the Saudi's want to remain in the political spotlight as the only swing producer. It gives them an international clout that must be intoxicating. If all oil producers are at full tilt, then all oil producers are equally important.

Clearly Chavez became much more prominent and powerful from petro-dollars as oil became more expensive. It works to his advantage to raise the oil panic by repeatedly claiming oil is running out.

Comments? What about other groups? I'd especially like to understand the motives of the US Geological Survey.

HH

This is an interesting question.

I'd draw a distinction between "motives" and "ulterior motives" intended to decieve or mislead. Both types of motives occur.

As a quick segmentation analysis, we could group commentators on oil issues roughly into political groups, corporate groups, and intellectual groups. The categories are not mutually exclusive. Other groupings do, of couse, make sense.

Political bodies include the IEA, EIA, USGS, and OPEC. They often have to support a homogenized point of view that is politically expedient. Many inside the groups may not really believe what they say. Consider the outrageously high USGS estimates, but the fact that they also publicize Les Magoon's peak oil viewpoint. I feel a lot of these groups are either disingenuous or have clear ulterior motives.

Corporate groups are the oil companies and other associated producers and users. A very few choose to speak openly (Chevron's "Will you join us" campaign). Some speak in code (Exxon Mobil's graph showing non-OPEC supply flat within the decade). Most don't speak, for good reason. Saying that your industry has no long-term future in its current form is bad for stock prices, and could even lead to lawsuits. I think these corporates will tell the truth when they believe it's good for business, and be discreet and quiet when they think the truth causes more trouble than it is worth. I don't think there is much outright lying here, perhaps because of liability issues as much as anything else.

Intellectual groups are those people studying the issue from a more outside perspective. I suspect most of these people are sincere and motivated by the truth as they see it. There are diverse opinions in this group: I'd put the Lynch & Yergin cornucopian / economic camp in this groups; as well as Hubbertarians/ depletionists like Deffeyes, Campbell, Simmons; environment policy people like Heinberg; social critics like Kunstler; and the more extreme post-industrial and dieoff groups. Some have clear agendas, such as pushing environmental or climate change policies, or debunking peak oil. But that doesn't mean they are lying--it's how they see the truth.

Dave said in an earlier post that peak oil is not a matter of belief, but I disagree with that. I am a fervent peak oil believer, but I can't (yet) prove my belief to a smart skeptic. The data is simply too bad, too incomplete, too full of holes. Ultimately, we don't know people's motives, but we can judge their words and actions. I'd assume sincerity, even from those I vehemently disagree with, unless we have clear evidence to the contrary.

This matter of belief is irritating.

If Peak Oil requires belief, then I want no part of it.

I "accept" it pretty firmly; I don't believe in it.

Belief is something you accept either in spite of or in the absence of evidence.

Belief requires faith, an evolutionarily designed mental error, I believe... Oops.

See? There's the colloquial sense, "Well, I believe what you're saying is not true," meaning "I think," and the psychological sense: "I believe because I believe."

This guy is so much more articulate about it:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/beliefs.htm

Sorry to offend, but we are accepting peak oil in spite of an absence of good evidence. Nobody knows what the OPEC reserves really are. We don't even know good production figures. Matt Simmons puts fixing bad data as a major top-priority problem. Even Colin Campbell won't show his data.

I have no problem accepting peak oil as a near-term reality. But I also know the data to date only partially supports that, and it is far from irrefutable. We in the peak oil community are assembling scraps of information, and putting it together in a qualitative, value-laden way that reflects our outlook. I happen to agree with most of it it. But don't think that this is rational, unbiased inquiry. We're partisans, and we are constructing our world view to fit our partisan leanings.

Peak Oil doesn't need good data to be proven. It is a fact for a finite resource that there will be peak extraction. Period.

You probably meant "we are accepting Peak Oil in the 2005-2010 timeframe despite not knowing what the OPEC reserves really are".

No offense at all.

You're saying exactly what I'm saying, in a sense.

"Belief" is irrefutable; peak oil, on the other hand, being subject to crappy data, is provisional, changing, irritatingly difficult to pin down.

It's that word, "belief," getting thrown around a lot that I don't like. See the crappy blob "Debunking Peak Oil," and you'll see what I mean. It's the idea of peak oil being a belief system that critics are seizing upon.

Again: peak oil does not require faith, which is what belief is all about.

What you are objecting to are irrational beliefs. Many of our beliefs are based on past facts as baseline data and then extrapolated into the future and which have various probabilities assigned to them by us.

When I encounter cornucopians, I tend to think of these as people with data sets less complete than my own. Their extrapolations are valid and have been valid historically yet they are lacking the additional data that transforms the expectation of continued oil availability into oil depletion.

The problem that occurs in human beings is that many, perhaps most, of us strive to not change beliefs even when the data set is expanded to include new data (or correct erroneous old data) that yields a different conclusion.

This question is quite philosophical.

If you dig into any statement you can find underlying assumptions which ar emore a less a matter of belief. Some of the assumptions are "widely accepted" and you can bet pretty much on them but some are indeed a matter of belief.

For Peak Oil we generally assume that oil is a finite non-renewable resource, though nobody can be absolutely sure on that. Another assumption is that the world has been thoroughly searched already and nothing substantial is left to be found. Well we have the evidence for that but nobody knows for sure, right? We simply extrapolate or deduce in uncharted territories and these deductions are potentially flawed. That's why it is better to say "I think" or "I believe" than "I know".

surely everyone who is aware that america is importing oil is "believing" that america has peaked.
do other countries not peak?
belief makes little difference to the time of when peak takes place. what does the smart sceptic say?

isnt it a question of believing WHEN oil is going to peak?
 so some people think 80 years time and because they will be dead they dont care, so people with kids care more?
the people who "believe" it will happen after they die still "believe" (apart from the abiotic amongst us)

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-27-2005/0004197851& ;EDATE=

here is a nice story about peak silver

"In free markets with free prices, supplies are rationed not by limits, but
rather, by higher prices.  The SUA, who is advocating a type of limit for
investors, would rather not see higher prices.  Today, it appears as if the
SUA is more concerned with keeping silver available to its members than
keeping silver prices low, since they can no longer continue to do both.  The
SUA is endorsing the bullish story for silver, in an attempt to keep silver
available to users, and away from highly capitalized investors who may want to
buy silver through a silver ETF.
    What are the bullish fundamentals for silver?  According to the Silver
Institute (silverinstitute.org) and CPM Group (cpmgroup.com), each year about
600 million ounces of silver are mined, while about 870 million ounces of
silver are consumed by industry, jewelry, and photography.  The difference is
largely met by recycling and investor selling.  In 2004 however, investor
selling ended as about 40 million ounces of silver was purchased by investors
throughout the year, which drove silver prices up from a low of $4.15 to a
high of $8.40/oz."

if i dont believe silver has peaked will that mean there is more silver for me?

I recall listening to a BBC interview in the 3rd or 4th week of May 1990 (~2 months before Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait).  They were interviewing the VP for Marketing of the weapons division of Vickers, a British weapons manufacturer.  At some point during the interview the interviewer asked him if Vicker was going to de-emphasize the weapons side of their business now that the Cold War was over.  He replied, "Oh no.  We think there is still a large market for weapons, especially in the Persian Gulf."

I offer this and subsequent events as evidence that the worldwide military-industrial complex considers oil as crucial to their marketing strategy.  If oil is becoming scarce I fully expect that it will lead to a windfall for them.

Thanks for this question about motivation.  I have thought about the issue more from the perspective of trying to understand what unconscious motives or subconcious needs might cause us to deceive ourselves in these questions that have great impact in how we decide to live our lives.  Cuz when you decide to junk your cushy pleasant life and buy the organic farm in Sasketchewan, you don't want to realize later that you allowed yourself to be mislead by someone with mixed motives.

We in the Peak Oil camp like to point out that our spokespeople are more believable than governments or corporate spokespeople because our champions have no vested interests in the outcome.  They are retired, they are outside the system, etc.

I beg to differ.  At a very basic level, we have a need or desire to be proven right.  We tend to become attached to an argument and world view, and an unconscious need to be proven right can become a powerful motivator, especially for those who define themselves as intellectuals, as ones who have tasted of the tree of knowledge, and who can discern not only what is true from what is false, but what the future holds, and how the rest of humanity must conform to their divine revelation or perish.  This motivation can skew our interpretation of reality, causing us to filter incoming data that interferes with our world view.  I humbly suggest that this motivation runs deep and has a long history.

Along with this subconscious need is a tendency for groups to begin to reinforce each others opinions, as noted here:
http://www.energybulletin.net/10113.html, where the author mentions the study on firemen adopting similar viewpoints in their close knit firehouse societies, viewpoints seen by any outsider as silly.  So this is not so much a motivation but a group behaviour.  In public policy debates, this group think tendency leads us to polarized, inflexible group positions, and an inability to thoughtfully consider other viewpoints.  

When I read the Time point-counterpoint essay, I was struck by the degree to which this is already a polarized issue in which each camp trots out the same verbiage and arguments, replete with key emotional trigger words which quickly identify one's faith allegiance and remove the need for any further thought.

I am glad though that we can agree here to leave religion out of it and resolve everything through our pristine scientific objectivity.