With all due respect...

I don't see what's "great" about that discussion. It's argument ad hominem, with a huge dose of tautology thrown in ("circular reasoning").

It betrays an interest in labelling everyone and everything.

"primitivists" see the collapse of industrial civilisation and human dieoff, "libertarians" see an opportunity for the market to bring new energy sources and technoloies to us,

How do we know one is a "primitivist"? Because one sees in peak oil the collapse of industrial civilization.

How do we know one is a "libertarian"? Because one see in peak oil the market bringing new energies, etc.

This is profound?

There's something a little "post-modern" about the article, that superciliousness that says, "There is no such thing as objectivity, there are only 'subjectivities.'" I know this because I am a post-modernist.

I'm waiting for psychoanalysis in all its forms to "dieoff."

I am in broad agreement with MikeB on this, it contributes nothing notable.

On the philospher's stone...

"You are dreaming.
You are with some beings, somewhere.
You are about to be shown the Philosopher's Stone.

You are given a smooth stone slab, say, 10 by 12 inches, made of a pearly, shimmering material in which an infinity of patterns fluctuates.
A piece of paper is folded and cut, then unfolded, and you have a symetrical pattern of cut holes. Laying this paper over the stone slab, you see visual events in the slab confirming the pattern cut in the paper.
You cut a different pattern; the visuals in the slab seem to corroborate the new pattern of the viewholes.
It occurs to you that the paper pattern acts as a screen, selecting from the infinite field only patterns which correspond to the viewhole arrangement, bits of other patterns which may exist in the stone are seen, if at all, as noise, since their complete symmetricity is screened out.

You understand: this is the Philosopher's Stone.

It occurs to you that all our philosophies are like the cutout patterns you lay on the stone; That corroboration by symmetricity has been sufficient to establish the particular cutout screen as 'truthful'. It is clear though that one 'truthful' symmetry excludes others, by treating their components as noise.

You realize that this applies not only to philosophical systems, but to your daily life- that we screen and select patterns which we live in, and live by, and the rest is noise. This is fundamental to our continuity of consciousness.

It occurs to you that the more cutouts there are in the screen pattern (greater complexity), the more 'truthful' symmetries will be found. The upper limit being the infinite field which we first started out with, and to which we needed to apply patterns to perceive.

The most inclusive way of seeing the stone's infinite field is then with no screen at all.

How indeed do we do that?
It requires a self induced mutation of consciousness."

http://www.mkzdk.org/philosopherstone.html

Seemed pretty silly to me.  Reads more like a gossip column than anything else.  
I have to say I liked it, but then of course he said nice things about one of my pieces, so probably my opinion should be discounted in this case :-)
I thought it was a nice little deconstruction actually...it wasn't as nihilistic as was portrayed above...now, the catch is (in that terribly Foucault-ian way) is to reintgrate it into something that we can all progress because of...

so, get to work all of you.

Gossip columnist hey ?

Harsh but fair I suppose - and the description did make me laugh :-)

I'm glad PG and Stuart enjoyed my musings anyway...

mikeB - with all due respect, I think you're misinterpreting what I said.

The only ad hominem attack I made was on Jerome Corsi, and I think he's got a thick enough skin to handle it as he hands out that sort of stuff for a living (maybe JD as well but we trade comments occasionally and there is nothing malicious in it and he doesn't seem to be offended by it).

I wasn't trying to "label" anyone and I was using categorisations which most of the recipients would use themselves (except for the conspiracy theorist and fascist descriptions perhaps, but I still think they are accurate).

If you go over to Anthropik for example you'll find they weren't offended by my description (and it prompted a bit of introspection there) and that they refer to themselves as primitivists in their own writing.

Similarly, if you go over to Lew Rockwell you'll find they refer to themselves as Libertarians - I'm using their label, not creating one - and they'd propbably agree with my description of their interpretation of peak oil too.

So the "circular argument" is unfounded - its just a simple statement of facts from my point of view. I don't claim my words are profound but you really don't seem to have got my point.

In any case, the intent wasn't to criticise or say that anyone's beliefs are right or wrong - just to note that there is a fair amount of comfirmatory bias in a lot of people's observations and a lack of objectivity which tends to make assessing the reality of the situation pretty difficult.

And I'm certainly not trying to be a post-modernist interpreter of peak oil - it was just an idle late night rant...

Ad hominem simply means "to the man" (or woman). It's not necessarily an attack, and I didn't use that word. It's about character, not issue. I just can't get into psychoanalyzing people's motives. There's no better way to trip & fall over your own biases than to pretend to read others' motives.

Your statement on "comfirmatory bias": now there's something I can relate to!

Let's talk about it:

http://skepdic.com/confirmbias.html

Can't resist quoting from the source above:

This tendency to give more attention and weight to data that support our beliefs than we do to contrary data is especially pernicious when our beliefs are little more than prejudices. If our beliefs are firmly established upon solid evidence and valid confirmatory experiments, the tendency to give more attention and weight to data that fit with our beliefs should not lead us astray as a rule. Of course, if we become blinded to evidence truly refuting a favored hypothesis, we have crossed the line from reasonableness to closed-mindedness.

I wish we could get people like Mr Carroll to weigh in on peak oil.