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24 comments on New York to Move Away from Oil?

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Catskill on January 5, 2006 - 9:20pm Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
I currently live between the Catskills and Hudson Valley in NY.  My parents still live in western NY, south of Rochester.  Over the holidays I was talking with my Mom about wind energy and she told me in the flatlands between Rochester and Buffalo there appears to be a substantial backlash building against siting wind farms.  One of the bigger projects already on-line in NY is in this area, near Batavia.  My Mom recently traveled thru the area and said there are signs in a lot of front yards voicing the resident's disapproval of other proposed farms.

The whole conversation just left me shaking my head.  The region is mostly farmland - the farmers are hurting and I would think this gives at least some of them hope to continue farming and get some add'l profit on the side.  For the most part the land is wide open spaces and, while I can understand not wanting the whole lot of turbines in your backyard, if they're sited responsibly I can't imagine they'd be that big of a nuisance (I personally think a cluster of the things all going at the same time looks cool as hell - but that's just my opinion).  I might also add that the whole area is about as economically depressed as you can get and I would think the locals (and the state as a whole) would welcome any job opportunities associated with further development of these projects.  And the only other thing I'll add is that growing up out that way I just remember the wind blowing like hell ALL THE TIME so I think they've picked a great area for it.

Sorry about such a long post.

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cynus on January 5, 2006 - 10:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
How could Batavia say no to it?  There are many beautiful places on earth that I would not want to see fields of  windmills, but Batavia is the most depressing place on earth.  Some states--Minnesota I think--have programs where farmers are paid handsomely for allowing windmills on their land.  If New York had something like that I guarantee the Batavians would change their tune.
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Catskill on January 5, 2006 - 11:53pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Cynus - That's what I don't get about Batavia because I'm pretty sure NY does have a program that works with the farmers to site the windfarms and they get paid a certain amount (monthly ?).  If I remember correctly there are a couple large farms in Central and Eastern NY - one east of Syracuse and one west of Albany and I think I remember reading an interview with a farmer who went with that program - the place actually has turned into a bit of a tourist attraction.  I'm pretty sure that was the site out near Syracuse...
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Engineer-Poet on January 6, 2006 - 11:37am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
One of the issues is the FAA regulations for tall structures.  The warning strobes can be very irritating; I'm amazed that more of them are not regular targets of sharpshooters.
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joule on January 5, 2006 - 11:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Well, one reason for not wanting a large wind turbine in your backyard, apart from it being highly intrusive (and some would say ugly), is that it tends to produce a very unpleasant low-frequency vibration. A lot of work has been done on reducing this vibration, but it is has not been completely eliminated. Of course, if you're far enough away, that wouldn't matter.

 I'm all for wind power where it makes sense, but I would not want to live close to a large wind turbine, just as I would not want to live close to any power plant.

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Catskill on January 5, 2006 - 11:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I totally agree with you joule about not wanting those things as a lawn ornaments.

I have to admit that I don't know how these farms are typically arranged as far as placement of the turbines etc.

I am pretty familiar with that area though and there are a lot of farm fields and I guess I envisioned a set-up with a couple large central plots with the turbines and then these plots are surrounded by a buffer of productive cropland.  In some instances it might be tough to satisfy set-backs from every single house on a rural road but, if a farmer were compensated fairly, with all the land available out there I think the physical aspects of siting could be overcome.  Now, overcoming the pre-conceived notions of something new in an area whose last great technological leap forward was either the Erie Canal or the old coal fired locomotive (take your pick) - I think that's where the real issue is... (Don't be offended western NY - you'll always be home - if only you had some damn mountains).

If the issue for most people is truly the visual disturbance caused by the windmills in the distance then I have no good way to argue against that.  They are the landowners and I'm sure they didn't buy thinking they'd be seeing a bunch of those on the horizon.  I could attempt the rather weak comeback of "well, it might beat seeing the cooling towers of a nuclear plant on the horizon - at least the windmills are dynamic, while nuke plants just sit there, kind of spooky since you know there's some serious stuff happening inside that containment..."

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Glenn on January 5, 2006 - 11:57pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
For more on the whole wind farm debate, see these posts:

Aesthetics of Wind Power

Wind Powered Liberty

Nimby Now, Regret Later?

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Leanan on January 6, 2006 - 12:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
They look cool when they're new.  They're eyesores after a few years in the elements.

I went home to Hawai`i for the holidays.  We ended up taking a visitor around to see the sights, including South Point, the southernmost point in the United States, and the site where humans first set foot in Hawai`i.  There's a windfarm there, built in 1986.  I took this photo:  

(Click for larger version.)

Most of the turbines were not spinning.  Some did not even have any blades left.  There's talk of replacing the aging turbines with newer models, but I don't know if or when it will happen.  

Hawai`i gets most of its energy from oil, but even at current prices, it's still apparently not worth anyone's while to maintain the wind farm.

This is why I wonder how sustainable wind really is.  Maintenance and infrastructure are expensive, and they don't get any cheaper when oil prices are high.  

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24 comments on New York to Move Away from Oil?

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