With this analysis it opens up the question of when you actually have a statistically valid downturn in production.
It seems to me that between 1-2 mbd downturn may be required that cannot be reasonably attributed to other causes before you can claim that we are post peak.

The OPEC decision to "cut" 1 mbpd in production seems quite convenient in 2007. Watch them up this cut go too 2mbpd over 2007 with KSA graciously taking the lead.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-10/05/content_702046.htm

These so called cuts could very well hide the real peak behind
a charade for a number of years. Taking actions like this into account we may not know the real peak until we hit another price peak and production does not come back to 2005/2006 values. And at that point the initial draws could easily be on tank farms for a while.

Including external factors like this points to a requirement that we see a 3-4 mbd or a 2 mbpd drop beyond what can be covered with potentially fake production cuts before we can be assured of peak.

So the revisions in world production numbers are well below the signal we would need to see to be sure that the peak has passed.

Right now, OPEC can make the cut and say that it is to shore up falling prices. If we really were dealing with a 1 mbd short-fall, prices would probably be soaring. OPEC would have to come up with a different excuse to cut production.

The only alternative excuse I can come up with is global warming. Seeing OPEC cut production due to global warming would warm my heart a great deal.

Depending on how hard they've been driving their fields (very hard, by some accounts), they may be eager for a production cut in order to rest their fields a bit.

The odd thing, to me, is that this cut is being widely reported in the media, yet there is no discussion about whether or not Bush is leaning on KSA to keep the taps open and let the price drop back to "normal" levels (~$40/bbl).

Dave made a great post back in January, one of my favorites:

http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/1/2/19364/13876

It's about the Hotelling model of oil production (which has nothing to do with hotels and everything to do with Dr. Hotelling who invented it).

Basically Hotelling asked, how should owners and producers of oil or some other finite resource manage their production in order to maximize their profits? There's some advantage to producing quickly in order to get money up front, since money sooner is worth more than money later. On the other hand there's some advantage to waiting longer, when the resource will be in short supply and be worth more. Hotelling analyzed how to optimally balance these two effects and computed what the ideal production profile would be.

It turns out that in theory, producers should schedule production so that the price rises steadily and consistently over time. This means producing at the maximum rate at first and then gradually ramping down production (not for geographic reasons, but for economic ones). At some point the resource is assumed to get so expensive that some other resource would be substituted, and the whole thing should be arranged so that we run out of the resource just as the price rises to that point.

Ignoring the somewhat awkward fact that the history of oil production does not resemble the Hotelling model in the slightest, we might nevertheless expect that such considerations start to play a role as we move into the oil endgame. Now that oil producers see that their resource is in fact finite and will run out in the foreseeable future, they need to maximize the net wealth they can extract during the time they have remaining. And Hotelling tells them exactly what to do: adjust production so that the price rises at a few percent a year (in real terms, i.e. plus the rate of inflation - a net price increase of maybe 5-8% per year).

Short-term Peak Oil believers might argue that if this is in fact what producers wish to do, they've waited too long: they will not be able to produce at a rate that can limit price increases to this modest amount. Natural growth in demand will cause the price to increase much faster than this, and geographical limitations will prevent production from keeping up to restrain price increases.

However, Hotelling has an answer to this, which is that if a producer anticipates these events, he needs to change his strategy. Specifically, the producer needs to throttle back right now, which will cause a one-time price increase, such that he will from then on be able to supply sufficient additional oil that this much-higher price can grow at that gradual rate.

I could go into more detail about what the profit-maximizing oil producer should do who knows when he and the world will peak (this would particularly apply to Saudi Arabia), but this is getting a bit long. Suffice it to say that SA's actions are not particularly consistent with the view that they are trying to maximize their wealth and that they know that the peak is now or very near.

Hotelling theory doesnt jive with the 'shop-til-you-drop' behaviour evolution endowed us with. If we save something valuable in the ground, someone else will sell theirs and use money to buy things or live high on the hog, thereby outcompeting us. That is of course, if the systems measure of 'wealth' is money. The day will come when it is something else.  For now a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
If that were true then no one would ever save. They would spend in order to get the benefits you describe.

Some people say, nobody I know saves, everyone borrows. But remember that all borrowing comes from someone else's savings.

Get real. In the modern economy almost none of the credit, which is created with a snap of a banker's fingers out of thin air, is backed by someone else's savings. Stop using antiquated theory that does not match the actual usage patterns of the system. The credit system today does NOT have $1 of savings for each dollar of credit extended. In fact, that is frequently discussed as one of the major dangers in the modern credit system.

The reality is that most borrowing has little or nothing to do with someone else's savings.

Grey Zone. Stop busting on Halfin. Once you stop, he will start to engage you in a meaningful manner. I love you both.
right  what happen to opec's $ 28 price target of a few yrs ago  certainly part of it is explained by us dollar devaluation  but the price target was supposed to be a price at which demand wouldnt slacken and everybody would be happy      maybe opec has been reading the msm  which is telling the gullible public that high oil prices have had a minimal effect on the economy  
Back in the late 90's and even until very recently it was widely believed that for every $10 increase in oil prices the GDP of the world would decline by about .5%.  Of course this proved to not be the case.  Pegging oil to a range is silly: producers should try to maximize long term profits.
either that or inflation has been disguised as gdp
How can you have tank farms and claim it has already peaked?

If there are oil storages full and can be released to cover production shortfalls, then aren't these numbers inaccurate to begin with?  After all, we are at least double counting if not repeat counting for oils in storage in general.  Who is to say if the buyer puts it in storage and releases it as newly produced oil?  They must have a way to fetter these out, right?


Actually probably not. KSA controls what they say they pumped and tankers leaving the region could easily be headed
for overseas storage.

So if one month they can pump and store and the next month the both pump and empty storage they "boost" production the second month.

This means they are pumping flat out all the time but doing production cuts as needed to refill storage.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that they are indeed pumping flat out regardless of the announced cuts and using cuts as a cover to refill storage tanks. Or at least till recently it looked suspiciously like this was the case. Now they probably need to simply start cutting production or risk damaging the fields. At say a fake cut of 500,000 mpb with 300,000 mbd still being pumped they can refill storage fairly quickly.

Notice the noble GWB is playing fast and loose with the SPR.
And as far as I know draws on the SPR do not have to be public especially lets say if they are for military use.
So even here their exists the chance that not only is Bush not refilling the SPR but that he has authorized semi-secret transfers for military use. I don't know if the military ever purchases crude directly but if it does then injection of crude from the SPR for military use is quite possible and of course need not be made public. Considering how big a user of oil the military is it would boost supplies considerably.

Here is one link of a company that sells to the military.

http://www.hollycorp.com/refineries_navajo.cfm

I'm just throwing that out as a type of game you can play with monthly production if you have a large tank farms.
It can hide real shortfalls for some time. Sooner or later
real declines will force the numbers down but you may be able to hide them for 6 months or more by playing games storage and it gives you plenty of time to think of a reason for the next "production cut".

The question is how much influence do these types of scenarios have on world supply ?

Remember the claim is 500,000mbd of oversupply was all that is needed to drop oil prices significantly.

A combination of a cooling US Housing market plus stopping the refilling of the SPR  and the buildup for hurricane season might be the only reason for the current oversupply.  If not additional games with tank farms may be all that's needed to ensure a short term oversupply situation. If we really are playing games with our internal production and the SPR and it ever comes to light then you know KSA is doing it.

If this is really happening expect production numbers to drop of quite a bit say next fall at the latest.

Gosh another conspiracy theory, all the refinery and SPR workers and managers are Bush lovers and would never blow the whistle on shady production and storage records. No doubt all the previous employees were fired when Bush took office. The Dem'S are so incompetent they would never question anyone to find out the facts about the production and storage records. Before long there will be so many conspiracies taking place it will require the entire US population. I am amazed how many conspiracies this bumbling fool can manage at the same time and no one seems to be blowing the whistle and providing facts.

I like a lot of your opinions, but conspiracies are not my cup of tea.
"Remember the Maine"

Well...to be perfectly honest I don't think all the workers would have to in on it...just the top dogs.

But I don't think there is collusion.

Fucking American. You gonna die of Cancer.

No I wasn't wishing that on you. I'm jusy listening to some tunes.

I like TOOL.

Hey.....

Sorrry, I got my shit turned up too loud. Way too motherfucking loud. Here that?

Say that again.


I'm just speculating about the games you could play with a large oil reserve to control prices. In reading up on the SPR some of the sales seem a bit intresting to say the least.

Considering my distrust of both the Bush administration and KSA over the oil supply I'd put nothing past them.

Look at the WMD fiasco it was a basically a lie and no one came forward to stop it.

I don't see collusion as being required just don't announce a sell. They are already playing serious games with the SPR now.
Not refilling etc etc.

Whats one more ?

Anyway its just to get people thinking about the types of games you can play with large oil storage facilities that can have a effect on the market. Both the US and KSA are in a position to play shell games with oil in storage to influence the market.

As far as the SPR goes we probably won't find out if anything fishy is going on until a Democratic president is in office. But I suspect if I'm wrong now at some point future a President will start playing games with the SPR.

"Look at the WMD fiasco it was a basically a lie and no one came forward to stop it."

Umm... lots of experts and foreign/UN officials came out and stated the WMD evidence presented by Colin Powell at the UN is a farce.  Just because the public did not pay attention to them does not mean no one came forward.

"I don't see collusion as being required just don't announce a sell. They are already playing serious games with the SPR now.
Not refilling etc etc."
You do know that SPR inventories are public record and are audited.  So in order to pull this off, a group of people have to be in.  I am not saying it cannot be done.  I am saying it does have to be presented as a national security issue.  Sound familiar?

This Government needs to declare a de facto peak and act accordingly.  Determining the peak is mainly important only because we think we need to set policy or no policy based upon what is nostalgically called the free market.  The peak first needs to occur and then it has to be formally acknowledged by the powers that be.  Only after that, if at all, will meaningful policies be constructed to deal with that reality. But nooooo. We would rather limp along for another decade or so doing little or nothing to reduce our dependency upon OPEC and other foreign producers.

This debate will not be resolved until long after the peak has occurred. To the extent that peak is important, we shouldn't have to wait until it is obvious to everyone.

Do we really want to have the government declare peak, and act accordingly, as soon as possible? I'm not certain. While there may be more of an attemp to conserve and find alternatives after peak is declared, I think there may be some huge secondary problems. If bankers really understand peak oil, I expect all types of long term loans - including mortages - to become unavailable immediately. I expect the value of stocks to drop, perhaps by as much as 90%. Many companies will go bankrupt, and there will be many layoffs.

With these stresses, the US may end up like Russia or Argentina after their crashes. If this happens, oil usage will be immediately reduced, but it is not clear any real progress will be made in finding alternatives. Also, we are likely to have problems with many of the basics - food, maintining basic services, law and order, and the like.

So Gail the Actuary - Do you think I should sell my energy ETF stock (Vanguard VDE) and/or my gold ETF stock (GLD)?  I have done well with both.  Currently, I live in an apartment in the city of Seattle.  My brother lives in a nearby suburb.  Do you think I should move to Alaska or Canada given James Lovelock's prediction?  (As you know, he's the author of The Revenge of Gaia).  If you have time to respond, thank you.
Skip-

With respect to whether to continue to hold enegy and gold ETF stocks, I think solid things, like gold, real estate that can be used to cultivate crops, and things you will need in the future are better investments. It is probably best to limit investments in stocks, bonds, and bank accounts to amounts you can get along without. I still have quite a bit in financial investments, just because it is impractical to shift entirely to solid investments.

With respect to moving to Alaska or Canada, I have read James Lovelock's recent predictions and had the same idea. I have decided against it, partly because my husband and children would be unwilling to move, and partly because of practical questions - Would too many people want to move at the same time, and there not be enough food in the north? Where would everyone get jobs? Would we be able to cultivate crops in the north in the next few years, or would it still be too cold?

For now, I have decided to make as much of each day as I can where I am right now. I cut back my work hours to 80% so I have more time for things I enjoy, and I make an effort to look for the good things in each day. I may not live as long as I would have otherwise, but I am making an effort to spend time with loved ones, and do the things I enjoy, while things are still OK. I am also doing a little Peak Oil volunteer work.

Gail

Actually, they PAY you to live in Alaska! :P
Gail The Actuary -

Thank you for your detailed answer. [You're welcome.]  I respect your opinion.  Anyone who can pass those exams has got to be smart.

Skip

I ask again - what about moving somewhere like Niagara Falls and investing in land there -  the hydro isn't going to shut down anytime soon.  Suburbs + Exurbs will be dying + being agriculturalized, most of us agree on that.  Urban theories range from a revitalization because of mass transport, to a savage no-man's land because of lack of food/water.

But urban places served primarily by hydro are going to chug right along.

I still have quite a bit in financial investments, just because it is impractical to shift entirely to solid investments.

This translates to "I'm not putting my money where my mouth is, but I think you should".

Frankly, I think it is appalling, and close to criminal, to be giving people financial advice that could severely impact their life, when you know almost nothing about them and don't seem to be following that advice yourself.

In case you didn't notice he asked for her advice. She didn't ask for your's. Since when is it "almost criminal" to answer someones question honestly?
Actually giving investment advice under a wide range of circumstances is illegal without the proper licenses, and for very, very good reasons. Both of the investment classes being discussed are broadly traded and priced at market values. Gail does not appear to have any unique information and so providing specific advise on specific actions is the equivalent of saying spend your life saving at a crap game.

Gail is presumably trained as an actuary and may be licensed under bodies that provide guidelines for the ethical and beneficial pursuit of her trade. She is apparently not trained in providing investment advice.  Without knowing the individual circumstance of an individual it is impossible to provide guidance on specific investments in a way that is useful. Saying sell this and buy that just introduces a huge amount of risk for the person on the receiving end.

What if the person sells the funds and buys gold. Then gold plunges and the other investments take off. What is Gail going say? The truth: I didn't know what I was talking about when I suggested that you take a life alerting decision?

If someone said to me that they had a huge lump on their throat and asked whether I thought they should cut it out with a sharp knife, it would be irresponsible, and borderline criminal for me to just cavalierly say "yeah, cut it out", especially if when I found a similar lump in my own throat, I did took the more responsible step of seeing a doctor.

She didn't ask for my advice. I didn't ask for yours. In both cases we got it and I hope are wiser for exposure to new ideas.

I know my comment was strongly worded, but I think apt. People do make foolish investment decisions based on the advice of anonymous commenters on websites. While I haven't seen a statistical evaluation of results, I will guess they are not great.

When I see this in the future I will continue to issue what I think is a very valuable warning. Perhaps in the future I will soften the wording to "highly negligent" rather than "almost criminal". I hope that will make you feel better.

Jack,

You write well.  I comprendo.  Gee, now I'm sorry I asked!  Gail The Actuary is a very thoughtful person!!!! I have been following her comments since she first appeared.  She's wonderful and I am so grateful she took the time to respond.  I'm no rube (although my brothers may disagree :) and I seriously doubt whether there are any on this web site (okay, maybe I'm wrong about that).  Jack you are formidable.  Please everyone - Let's move on to the next topic!!!  Thank you!!

Skip

Thanks for the nice reply. I didn't intend to be so rough on Gail or imply you were a rube.

I do worry a lot about investment advice flug around as these decisions are very personal and have great consequences. They depend on what portion of one's saving we are talking about, when they might need to money, what level of risk thay are willing to bear and how they view the future.

I do want to continue to caution people about making investments based on what they hear on the web. In the future, I will try to be a bit softer about it.

Jack,

It's okay.  I did read her response closely as you did.  It seems to me the folks on TOD are brighter than the average Joe (although I'm definitely on the lowest rung of the scale :)  Please don't worry about me.  I am grateful Gail The Actuary took the time out of her busy schedule to respond.  Thank you for your concern.  [You're welcome.]  I appreciate that as well.

Skip

Don't underestimate yourself, Skip.  Your, "You're welcome" idea is pure genius.  I wish everyone on TOD would follow your lead.  Thank you.  [You're welcome.]  Keep up the good work.  You don't see something like this every day.  Thanks again.  [Don't mention it.]

   

Hello Memmel,

Excellent point, all the more reason to support Matt Simmons's pleading for full worldwide energy audits and data transparency.  My hunch is TPTB will resist full data disclosure.

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?