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123 comments on What Does an Undulating Plateau Really Mean?

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AlanfromBigEasy on November 18, 2006 - 5:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
It is nonsensical to build the tunnels for diesel locos.  Energy for ventilation, extra costs. etc.

One solution (short-term) is to use dual-mode  locos (special built) that can run off of pantograph or 3rd rail in tunnel and switch to diesel once outside electrified zone.

Pantograph could be 25,000 or 50,000 V AC, 3rd rail is likely to be 750 V DC (could be AC).  3rd rail is limited in voltage but on-board transformers allow switches between voltages (EU some locos can operate on 3 different voltages & both AC & DC).

What agency is doing the preliminary design ?  Contact them as well.

Best Hopes,

Alan

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Squalish on November 18, 2006 - 6:48pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Devil advocation:  Is it really so difficult to add on a battery car behind the locomotive car for shorter-tunnel-bound trains?  The motors are already electric anyway, all they have to do is shut off the diesel generator for five minutes.  They wouldn't need to specially build all-electric or dual-mode locos or super-ventilate the tunnels, just add a few cubic meters of batteries, flywheels, or flow batteries.  By my math, I get 8000kg of flywheel energy storage per 30 minutes of full-out acceleration of a 3000 horsepower locomotive.
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AlanfromBigEasy on November 18, 2006 - 7:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Speciality locos, or significant adaptations, would be required for battery power as well.

IMHO, battery power would cost more.

Electrification would last at least 40 years before major refurbishment would be needed.  A single electrification would service tunnel capacity # of trains, batteries would be needed for each individual train.

Batteries have an efficiency/cycle loss much higher than electrification via grid, so higher energy costs.

Electrification can be easily and cheaply extended above ground for a number of miles.  And in the near future, for hundreds/thousands of miles (I hope).

So, I support electrification :-)

Best Hopes,

Alan

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Substrate on November 19, 2006 - 11:26am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I just can't see how a dual power locomotive couldn't be easily adapted since the traction motor is electric.  You'd just need to rig on some feelers for the electric lines, have something that adapted the current to the motor current (maybe even in the electric lines themselves) and a controller to control the power output.  Presto, electric train.
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AlanfromBigEasy on November 19, 2006 - 12:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
IMHO, an existing diesel electric design could be adapted (and this is what should be done) to dual mode, but an existing diesel-electric loco would not be cheap to adapt.

Rearranging wires, adding a 3rd rail shoe or pantograph, mounting a transformer (where ?), new controls, etc. on an older loco would make me grind my teeth.

Far easier to do in a Cad/Cam program than to preexisting steel & wiring !

Best Hopes,

Alan

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Substrate on November 19, 2006 - 1:39pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Might be a PITA, but unlike PO, that really would just be an engineering problem.  Have you ever contacted any of the locomotive manufacturers to see if they have plans on hand for conversion or whether they've done any research into it?  I would hazard a guess that someone's put some thought into it.
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AlanfromBigEasy on November 19, 2006 - 1:52pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I have had several conversations with Larry Conrad, VP Engineering at Brookville Equipment, the last US maker of small locos.

Best Hopes,

Alan

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123 comments on What Does an Undulating Plateau Really Mean?

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