Seriously - this is the third time Ive seen this and perhaps Im ignorant....but who would PAY someone to troll TOD and for what purpose??
Exactly - and while he has been very controversial, I haven't seen him promote anything in particular and he is a believer in Peak Oil on the same time frame as Campbell and advocates alternative energy. This is really why his contentiousness and hostile attitude has me confused more than anything. His position behind the rhetoric is very similar to RR's, but boy is the rhetoric different. He has really obscured whatever point he his trying to make by his demeaning, hostile style.
um... who are you referring to?
Hopefully me.  I'm campaigning to get myself voted off as a troll--one way to cure the addiction.
Ah..no as an "oil troll" you get stuck in the tarsands or is that tarzans I can't remember..
Sorry, I was thinking of Hothgar following the preceeding line of comments.

I'm certainly not ready to let westexas (no, it's not you) go so easily.

Who would pay someone to deny the science behind the conclusion that the climate is heating up?

If the USA (and the west in general) embarked on a program of best-available-technology efficiency improvements, replacement of fossil fuels and R&D aimed at extending both of the above, the price of oil would sink and the total amount produced (before declining fields are closed and abandoned) would also decrease.  The difference in revenues to oil producers versus the current "plenty of oil" peak-denialism could be a trillion dollars.  If you think it isn't worth a few tens of thousands of dollars to troll TOD, Real Climate and other blogs where experts meet the public, I think you underestimate what's at stake.  Even a few months' delay could be worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

Wow - I never thought of that. I guess its plausible. Kind of scary though.
Re:  Engineer Poet

Just think of what would happen to some industries if everyone did adopt my ELP recommendations, which are really nothing more than a suggestion that you live within your means and maximize your savings.

I tend to not go for conspiracy theories, but I do believe in "follow the money."  I lot of very powerful interests want Americans to continue buying--and financing--large homes and autos.

Note the headline that Leanan just posted:
Detroit foreclosures lead nation

I have previously recounted a story about pitching my ELP message to a guy last year.  He thought about it, and then said, "But what happens to the US economy when we stop borrowing and spending?"  

It goes to show you how far this once great nation has fallen, when a simple suggestion that we live within our means is somehow considered to be vaguely un-American.

I wouldn't be surprized if this is connected with the unpleasant troll issue you've been discussing (this posting should probably be under one of those threads I know...but here I go)

There is a long history of violations of constitutionally protected activities and rights in the US.  One that's grieviously under-reported and unrecognized is the Freedom of Association (this would include such rights as not having to associate with gov't spies, provocateurs, moles, professional disruptors, etc...  in your contitutionally protected association).

The book "The War at Home" describes how COINTELPRO (an FBI operation) was used to "misdirect, discredit and disrupt" any organization/individual not to its liking.  (Generally anyone with an activist agenda perceived as threatening by large corporations.) It makes for chilling reading, but it will give even the most polite Boat-Rockers new eyes with to perceive their activist experiences.

We only know of COINTELPRO because some brave citizens actually burglarized an FBI office, found the incriminating documents, and published them!  At that point, congress was compelled under public pressure (this was the 70's after all) to order them to shut the operation down, which they nominally did.

One doesn't need to be a cynic to assume they just decentralized and renamed the operation.  I've known many activists working on some incredibly benign campaigns tell stories of organizations and work destroyed by events that look like they were scripted out of "The War at Home".

If you can't recognize it, you can't see it.

I have been known to speculate about the privatised version of some of this stuff (paid trolling to further various industry PR campaigns like global warming denial), using Netvocates as an example.

http://peakenergy.blogspot.com/2006/06/netvocates-privatised-propaganda.html

Nice post by the way PG - I feel much the same way - I guess its the price you pay for success (those of us ranting away in relative obscurity don't have the same problems of course)...

WG - We had formed a group to oppose a gov't asphalt plant. There showed up a guy with a vague backround( no real job to speak of, no work phone #, no real address, etc.) that wanted to get deeply involved.  Claimed to have bought this piece of bare property which had been bought only under a different name(we did a county records check). Said he wanted to build a house etc. etc.
One of our members had read an article in the NewYorker magazine that said these type of operations are alive and well here in the US.  We kept him at an arms lenght.  Luckily we live in an area where the "new comers" are the ones who have been here 8 years.
He went away as wierdly as he showed up.  Property sold a year or two later. Never really saw him on it(the land).
No proof or anything just a little too strange for a few of us.  I have never forgot it.
Wasn't it Egar Hover(FBI) that had the dirt on everyone so he could go dress like a woman and no one could call him on it.
It would be a little niave IMHO to think that with the incredible money that rides on our oil based economy that there isn't more than a few people watching this blog.
I've been living well below my means for the past twenty years.  What I need now is someplace to park my assets where they'll be worth relatively more after a contraction or dollar crash.
well, in the case of a dollar crash, do you think interest rates will rise or fall?
Westexas, I know you've already seen the news that our Dallas foreclosures, through November, lead those of all of last year. And, you still have puff-writing Realtors' advocates saying, "Nothing to see here; it's all getting better."

I wrote an editorial in my newspaper last month advocating against a local school bond, mentioning the housing slowdown allowing a little breathing room.

Got flamed.

A group of US senators recently requested ExxonMobil to stop funding groups and individuals that deny/understate Global Warming/"Climate Change".

One can buy quite a bit of "science" with XOM's checkbook !

Reality

Alan

there are plenty of people out to trash PO and GW.

From the New Scientist:

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/opinion/us/mg19225765.000.html

Interesting that Pat Michaels of University of Virginia rubbish's Global Warming by counting the number of published reports against Global Warming and using that number as proof that GW is a figment of someone's imagination. I would have thought that a responsible academic would have spent years gathering data with an unbiased view point, seeing where the data was heading and publishing a report on the data that they had collected.
On the various securities message boards, like Yahoo's for example, there are paid "bashers" and "pumpers" that are the same as trolls. I've seen that here and directly accused one of such behavior quite some time ago. Indeed, there are many times when I ignore the comment threads after the main article because the format is unwieldy and discourse disjointed. It's been my experience that once confronted trolls are best ignored except to debunk sophisticated FUD.
Nate,

You need to get a tinfoil hat. I can let you borrow mine. Now granted a lot of times you'll end up worrying about stuff that is just flat out crazy. But nowadays for every 5 ideas that sound totally crazy at first (like corporations paying trools), 1 or 2 of them turn out to be true. So the tinfoil hat is quite usefull if you get my drift.

I can think of a number of people/groups who would profit from diminishing a group like this, as Westexas has hinted.
  1. CERA. The more convincingly Yergin's puff becomes refuted, the more he has to lose.
  2. CERA's Big Oil masters.
  3. The Democratic Party, if it gets challenged enough to actually start addressing Peak Oil.
  4. Residential housing developers, planners, etc. The more untenable the "big box" becomes as a cheap way to ramp up the cost of houses enough to let cities exercise a modicum of socioeconomic control over their growth, the more this group fights back.
  5. Utility companies
  6. Maybe even speculative financiers of the Soros sort who don't want the potential for market manipulations altered, undercut or exposed.
How's that for a starting list?
Here's another way of thinking about it: I saw a job ad on Post Carbon's Institute page. Part of the job included participating in internet forums to promote PC's views.

Personally speaking if a PCI paid poster showed up at the LATOC forum, I wouldn't mind one bit. My guess is the overlords of TOD would feel simiarly as such a person would add positive/informative commentary.

My point is this: if a small operation like the PCI is willing to pay a person to participate in internet discussions for what we consider constructive reasons, how much more motivated would a multi-million dollar operation with less benevolent intentions be to pay people to participate in discussions for destructive reasons?

It only makes sense that big insitutions would hire professional posters.