258 comments on DrumBeat: November 5, 2006
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
258 comments on DrumBeat: November 5, 2006
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- Thanksgiving Open Campfire Thread
- How Relocalization Worked
- How to Set Up and Run a Bicycle Repair Company
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
—Albert Einstein
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Who is right and who is wrong doesn't matter. Who pulls the trigger on the nukes does.
But how to do that when you start by saying The Country being Threatened is to blame?
If the Radical Islamic Army next threatens France, Germany etc - do you blame France, Germany, etc for (I think they look, smell, taste, etc and even worship the same godz... harder to abandon maybe)?
Islam is not a serious threat to France, Germany, etc. There may be occasional terrorist attacks, but they are not an existential threat.
It is an existential threat to Israel, though, which is why they were tempted to use "the last resort."
As for prevention...unless we somehow get Israel to follow Ahmadinejad's advice and move to Europe, I don't see anything we can do about it. They are vastly outnumbered, in the midst of a sea of people who hate them...and who are reproducing a lot faster than they are. Oil is allowing them to maintain military superiority. It's a temporary situation.
The time to do something was back in the '60s, when Israel was becoming a nuclear nation.
We are not talking about Islam.
We are talking about Whether or Not the Radical Islamic Army assembled by Iran is a threat. How serious a threat is another question, a threat to whom at PRESENT and in the not-too-distant future are still other questions.
How many countries did The Nazi's take before the rest of the world woke up?
I don't think anyone should take "Ahmadinejad's advice " and I don't think stopping Israel from becoming a nuclear nation would have been a solution.
Three of the hottest hot spots in the world today are due to England's hasty dismantling of their empire: Israel-Palestine, Pakistan-India-Kashmir...and Iraq.
Israel is just the starting point for the Radical Islamic Army.
What we would like and what is are two different things.
eWe have to deal with what is. Israel exists and is the First Target for the Radical Islamic Army of Iranistan.
Okay, so Israel will be Voted Off The Island first...
I think "We" meddled in their region because "they" have The Oil and that is the only reason "we" pretend to give a rat's hinder for "them."
The Tribes are forming... "The Needy" team is thinking of who they will expell first... meanwhile...
(I think "painfully obvious" will become a common phrase for all of us soon enough.)
Besides being a false profet, he was also a bandit, a murderer, and a pederast.
Small wonder Hitler admired his self-made religion.
Maybe send terminator back to take out Drake...
If you really wanted to put a stop to this you would have to take your time machine back 100K+ years and knock off "eve" and maybe "adam" too...
"Unfamiliar disease killed off the great majority of the indigenous population in the Americas."
Sending in Smallpox on clothing to the villages kinda helped things along too.
"I'd go back and prevent Israel from ever being created."
Using the same arguements and looking at what how our country has been a major player in what we now face, it seems that the time machine might have been better used to prevent the USA from ever being created.
Is a bit of bias showing in your remarks? They predate the US by many hundreds of years and actually owned the land they now have a small piece of. They simply ask to live in peace and yet you would prevent them from assuming that land?
I think you are way off base here. Way way off.
Again,,they simply ask to be left alone. They did not start any of the agressive wars against them. They merely attempted to survive.
This is bullshit.
I'm sure a lot of people think that. And maybe they are right.
But I have a feeling it wouldn't make much of a difference. If the U.S. didn't arise here, another, very similar country would have.
"They predate the US by many hundreds of years and actually owned the land they now have a small piece of. They simply ask to live in peace and yet you would prevent them from assuming that land?"
Wow! You have little, or a very biased, understanding of the history of the region including and surrounding Israel (also called "occupied Palestine" by some). I can't think of a single conflict where it can't be argued that Israel had a hand in the conflict. Sometimes the hand was small, most of the time it was astonishingly huge. The Wikipedia page on the History of Israel bounces back and forth a bit in its bias, but isn't a bad place to start cultivating an understanding.
I agree that the vast majority of Israeli citizens just want to live in peace. However, their government is definitely not acting in a way that will bring that peace. And the Israeli citizenry seems to grudgingly accept that their government's actions are justified. The American occupation of Iraq has some of the same themes.
Frankly, I agree with Leanan that Israel is between a rock and hard place and will probably get squeezed out of existence eventually. Things will get much worse in the region before they get better. I would much rather see an end to the hostilities and everybody in the region live in a symbiotic way, but I'm far from hopeful.
The Origins and Evolution of the Palestine Problem
It's full of primary source material and direct quotes. One of the more prescient quotes is by British Member of Parliament, Lord Sydenham in 1922:
You are right. And, on the day it ended, the world inventory of nukes was 0; we were out. And the 3 which had been exploded were pretty small....
From a high of 65,000 active weapons in 1985, there were about 20,000 active nuclear weapons in the world in 2002. Many of the "decommissioned" weapons were simply stored or partially dismantled, not destroyed.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons
An all out war would be TEOTWAWKI
Ben Dover@KissRat'sAssGoodbye.com
How about four?
http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/pc/nuclear.htm
Port of Chicago.
Scenario:
Israel nukes southern Lebanon
A head of the Pakistani intelligence service decides to sell nukes to Syria as revenge (seeing how Syria's got to deal with the fallout)
Syria hits Jerusalem
Israel reflexively nukes every target it has in the Middle East, making the Qa'ba as radioactive as a reactor core.
Pakistan hits back at Israel
India's drawn in with justification to attack Pakistan
All without three of the most belligerent entities - Al Qaeda, North Korea, or the United States - doing a thing.
Do it yourself version. The dude nailed it in'02
We Will All Go Together When We Go
When you attend a funeral,
It is sad to think that sooner or'l
Later those you love will do the same for you.
And you may have thought it tragic,
Not to mention other adjec-
Tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.
(But don't you worry.)
No more ashes, no more sackcloth,
And an arm band made of black cloth
Will some day nevermore adorn a sleeve.
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too,
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.
And we will all go together when we go.
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we will all go together when we go.
We will all go together when we go.
All suffused with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance,
Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go.
Oh we will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be French fried potatoes by and by.
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie,
Yes, we will all fry together when we fry.
Down by the old maelstrom,
There'll be a storm before the calm.
And we will all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation
In that grand incineration,
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.
Oh we will all char together when we char.
And let there be no moaning of the bar.
Just sing out a Te Deum
When you see that I.C.B.M.,
And the party will be come-as-you-are.
Oh, we will all burn together when we burn.
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn.
When it's time for the fallout
And Saint Peter calls us all out,
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn.
You will all go directly to your respective Valhallas.
Go directly, do not pass Go, do not collect two hundred dollahs.
And we will all go together when we go.
Every Hottentot and every Eskimo.
When the air becomes uranious,
We will all go simultaneous.
Yes, we all will go together
When we all go together,
Yes we all will go together when we go.
Of course, now it would be more like "nearly 7 billion hunks of well-done steak."
Then those scientists are idiots. The U.S. alone did at least 331 atmospheric tests. There were probably twice that many world wide last century. A few atomic bombs set off by terrorists, iran, israel, etc., will have zero long term impact outside of the detonation zone.
The only way nuclear weapons can pose a global threat would be if the US and Russia decide to shoot their entire arsenals at each other. I put the chance of that happening at about the same odds as finding out that the abiotic oil theory is correct.