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218 comments on DrumBeat: December 14, 2006
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218 comments on DrumBeat: December 14, 2006
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The site and author appear to be very doomish and warn visitors that their lack of preparedness is a danger.
That being said I wondered that with the poll some time back showing that better than 1/3 of the voters here were of the doom mentality just how many were taking it very seriously, enough to actually do something.
That being said then I wonder why of all those here I see only a few who have stated on the board that they have made plans to weather the peak oil scenario.
Todd, myself and a few others who I don't recall.Thats what I count.
This to me is amazing!! Many take it for granted that their will be a very destructive endgame to peak oil yet only a few have made actual preparations to any meaningful degree to survive that endgame? That suburbia will self destruct. That the grid might not make it.
Does this mean they just give lipservice to the situation?
That possibly they have given up already?
That they don't think its possible , no matter what, to survive it?
Again...amazing. And some state outright that they intend to do absolutely nothing.
If what I state is true or partly true then how does anyone see a future for us? If the most informed users in the world are at this site and only a few are willing to make preparation to survive?
I wonder if the subscribers at Dieoff and Latoc are of the same attitude? Very few in number making real preparations?
What WT says about imports/exports, crashing oil fields and trashing most of suburbia? Thats right scary scenarios to contemplate, yet most are planning on doing nothing?
airdale
My position on whether and how to "prepare" is gradually clarifying. I felt a desperate need a couple of yours ago to figure out what to do, which meant I had to figure out what was going to happen. It was very frustrating to realize how cloudy the crystal ball still is. Most of the web sites and books devoted to preparation seem to have staked out a position based on little more than faith. The contributing considerations for post-peak preparation include things like urban/rural, slow/fast, money/no money, cooperation/roving hordes, etc. There is a legitimate case for each of these, and few rational reasons that I can see to prefer one over the other.
So the approach I have decided on is a combination of cost reduction, awareness, flexibility, and developing response options for various scenarios that can be progressively implemented as the situation clarifies. This approach means that I have in a sense triaged my life. I have decided that the most effort should go into being able to mitigate moderate scenarios. I can not, at my age, move to a farm and develop within a couple of years the skills needed to survive a major social crash. I can, however, plan to move to a farm if things get tight in my current urban situation, in time to develop grid-free heat and power and put in enough of a garden to make life easier - assuming the survival of some infrastructure and cooperation.
I will not plan for a major crash because I believe the cost/benefit ratio of doing that is too low, the opportunity cost is too high, and the cost of a false positive (preparing for a major crash that doesn't come) exceeds what I am willing to pay. Also, I am under no illusions about the probability of my long-term survival in such a situation.
I will keep my finger on the pulse of developments, and mentally and financially prepare myself for the possibility of making fairly large changes in my life if they become necessary. The kind of decline I am interested in preparing for will give at least six months warning, and will be gentle enough to allow me to reorganize during the first six months it's happening. Anything worse than that is too problematic for rational preparation.
I do find that peak oil has sort of infused my life in fairly subtle ways. I've written about how I decided I did need a car, though I seriously weighed just getting an electric bike. But I chose a small, reliable car, that I expect to drive until I retire or until the end of the age of oil, whichever comes first.
I used to be a real technophile; if not for peak oil considerations, I'd probably be thinking about buying a plasma TV or some such thing. Now, it's not even on my radar.
Just a fantastic juxtaposition - I love it!
- sgage
I used to think I needed a larger home. Now I realize I don't. I need less stuff.
I have also bought efficient light bulbs, canvas grocery bags, have my "emergency" kit stashed away with about two weeks of food/drink supplies, books on gardening, camping, and survival. Next year we are going to research permits and installations for solar panels on the house.
Lastly, we have a couple of friends with land out of town about 30 miles that are willing to put us up if need be for short term duration. They have cows, chickens, pigs and stream close by.
I have a fifty incher and a house full of high-efficency light bulbs. My electric bill rarely exceeds 25 bucks a month... and that's with an old 'fridge.
Okay... I do walk around in the dark more than most...
I do feel a bigger problem which will drag us all down is society's unwillingness to face up to what is coming. As many have expressed here our country has an incredible amount of debt as do many individuals. When the chips are down we aren't going to have the capital to invest in alternatives and the Chinese aren't going to lend us more money.
You seem fairly well down the road to self sufficiency. Enough to adapt to what comes.
I hear what you say about age. This morning I am putting the last of my R-19 up on the inside of the gable ends of my loghouse. This is on top of 1/2" of polyisocurinate rigid board and 1/2" of outside woodsheating. I made is extra thick since its the north side gable end.
So I work awhile and rest a while.I'm a lot slower than I used to be.
I have always wanted to dig a root cellar. My basement suffices somewhat but I like to have a place in the summer to store perishables for short periods.
I could box off the northwest end of the basement and super insulate it for a workable root cellar.
Best regards,
Airdale
I also need a milk cow or two and some chickens.
I'm just about where you are, prep-wise, over here in NH. Garden (Fedco seeds!), berries, chickens, cutting own firewood (and skidding it out with my big Percheron mare), etc.
I too am finding that age is taking its toll - especially with regard to firewood procurement. I'm thinking that maybe it's a younger man's game. However, one learns to pace one's self. But I confess I do feel a bit creaky sometimes...
- sgage
Just have to get everything ready
Have you got any ideas for further reducing that Firewood requirement? We approached it from three directions in our 1980 Home in Stoneham, Me. (White Mts, near Fryeburg)
- Passive Solar & Heavy insul. design(no surprise there)
- Russian 'Masonry' Stove, highly efficient, lots of heat mass. Holds (Mason Steve Busch, now installing Tullikivis)
- Cool Tube 'Geothermal Air Supply' - Uses the 4" Drainage tubes around the foundation to also allow fresh air to enter the house. Natural convection can create a decent draft, or it can be augmented with a fan. As long as it travels far enough, and well below the frost line, you will get 'warm' air in the winter (45 or so fahrenheit), and cool air in the summer, and will be assuring a decent O2 supply, which can be lacking in Fire-heated homes. Also can reduce 'negative pressure' which drags the cold air in cracks and blasts it in when doors/windows open. Very little info on the web, save one that cautioned about molds developing.. if drainage is properly set up, this should be OK.
Bob Fiske"Holds its heat for a day or more, after a basic 2-hour burn. It also used part of it's interchamber design to allow for a bake oven, which was strange for Mom, since it was long after the fire was down, and there was nothing to 'Turn On' (or off.. and you had to be SURE you set that timer)
I don't think there was any way to add insulation without tearing the house apart? We have vaulted ceilings in the living / dining area so there isn't room for more. We have the standard R19 in the walls and R35 in the ceiling. The bedrooms aren't vaulted so I was able to double up the insulation there. If I build from scratch I would be using 2x6's for extra wall insulation and R70 in the ceiling.
The masonry stove sounds interesting. Just using a Jotul 602 now. Small but does the trick. This is a small house. We only use 3 to 4 cords of wood a year. But using less would be even better. May need extra floor reinforcement for all the weight.
Have been thinking about how to add space if we need it for ageing parent(s). That would be super insulated.
They also call them 'window quilts', and are priceless. My mom swears that even with a whisper-thin bedsheet over a window, she doesn't 'feel' the cold (prob the radiative loss) of passing a dark piece of windowglass. I'm also considering a simple(ish) design of reintroducing 'Shutters' on the outside that are made of Rigid Foam, and shut tight, probably with controls on the inside somehow, so as to further 'incentivise' the process.
But yah, glass is a 'Lossy' part of the house.. solutions aren't that difficult, just a bit of a bother.
Bob
That said, in answer to your question, have you considered an outdoor wood fired boiler? They are expensive, but can really cut the labor involved in wood heat. One of the big labor gains is wood length-up to 4 foot, so less sawing and carting pieces. No splitting involved. And with the big firebox, you can burn even small stumps, Plus cleanup is a breeze, literally. And the big health plus is NO woodsmoke in the house.
- sgage
I live in Portland, now, but am going to try a 'retrofit' by running an air intake manifold around the base of the basement walls to absorb the ground heat, before entering the home.. It's not the first project on the list right now, so I won't be reporting on it soon.
The Masonry stoves are great! You can really be cutting your woodload in half or better.. Like anything truly worthwhile, these are pricey (maybe $6-10K), Heavy, and will be paying back steadily and for a long time.
As I see it we are likely to see an economic collapse here in the US within 2-3 years. You'll have lots of unemployed young men going around looking for some kind of work to do in exchange for food. If you've thought ahead and already got a small farmstead going like I do you may be able to give some of them some chores to do in exchange for some food, at least for a while. As things get worse and worse and there are more and more desperate people you'll be overwhelmed by the people begging and stealing from you. Don't think they can't find you either. What are you going to do, shoot them all? And of course all your relatives will want to come and join you too.
I basically enjoy what I'm doing and would probably do it anyway even if we weren't about to collapse. Farming is rewarding and keeps the mind occupied. But let's be realistic about what's coming down the pipe here. The lucky ones are probably those who are going to pass away peacefully and naturally in the next five years or so. Learn to accept the fact that you may not live to a ripe old age.
I agree with your comments 100%, particularly the last paragraph. I sure don't have any illusions. I don't do what I do because I think I'm "preparing" for anything. I do it because I love the life. I embarked on my path long before I ever heard of PO or whatever. It's just what I want to do.
I live in an area where most all the folks around are quite competent at useful skills. We're pretty used to helping each other out from time to time, and I guess we mostly like each other. No matter - we get along. Among my nearest half dozen or so neighbors, we have just about every tool and every skill you could want. And lots of horses - what I call the "horsepower of the future" :-) I just want to fit in with that, and be friends with everyone.
Meanwhile, I keep gardening, maintain the ol' chicken fleet (I guess most people would call it a "flock", but I think of them as "the fleet"), and manage my woodlot.
Nice and warm today in NH - sunny and mid-50's! No need for a fire in the woodstove until after sunset...
- sgage
As I see it there will be plenty of land available. There will be many folks in the rural areas who won't survive and they sit on lots of acres. Since thats so then those with the will and the means can and should be able to survive if they wish on land that is of questionable ownership. I don't think someone will come up and demand you move if we are all just trying to survive.
I don't see any ruling authority that will be in control expect possibly the one sheriff we have in my county and he won't be going looking for trouble. He will have far more other more difficult problems, if he is still around and thats likely debateable.
Remember back in Thoreau's time many did what was termed squatting. They occupied questionable land. Besides there are thousands upon thousands of public land.
Now if they don't want to bootstrap themselves up but want what you got then AFAIAC they will have to kill me to get it.
I won't be handing it over easily. Let them go get their own piece and farm it. If they wish to cooperate then they have to have something to offer except a hungry mouth. Even then they are going to have to be extremely careful how they approach others for the others will be expecting trouble.
This is the hardest part. Learning if you can trust a stranger. The stranger can just cut your throat in the night after you have given him a place to sleep.
So its a troublesome question. I worked hard for what I have. No one will take it from me.
Its as we used to say "root hog or die".
What I see of TOD posters indicates that there are three views of the future: Extremely serious problems are likely to occur; Any problems that occur will occur over a reasonably long time period sufficient to adapt as necessary; There won't be any serious problems.
The advantage those of us in the first group have is that we have gotten over the gloom and doom/grief so many people experience when they first consider that life may not be the same in less than a decade. If nothing earth shaking happens, fine. I think we all like where we are and what we're doing. If something really bad does happen, we know we will have more than an even chance of coming through it.
Airdale, that was a good opening post.
Todd
There are also a ton of comments by others.
That's correct, especially about the stealing. Imagine going to harvest your garden or hay the back forty, after all your work, to find the goods gone.
As I've said before, don't jump rural for just PO. I don't see the end of the world scenario, but things will become different and get tough. And the last place law enforcement will be is rural. It can hardly manage the current cost of gas, and we now can hardly support their tax share. If it does get worse, recall that land titles are only as good as the government's ability to protect it. The old dictum "strong fences make good neighbors" will fall with a pair of wire cutters.
No chickens, no cows, not even blueberries, but a big organic garden and 10 acres of woodlot with two streams, a dead end private road, and two neighbors who are good with their hands, machinery and hunting (bow and rifle).
I'm not much of a handyman, and as a city boy I've never hunted, so I've made it my role to provide our little compound with vegetables, something that I was able to do this past summer in spades. The neighbor's kids were fascinated by the vegetable garden, and I often sent them home burdened with root vegetables and squash for their dinner table. I've still got some winter squash (butternut) sitting here in my office and some greens in the freezer.
However, any idea that we are going to be able to survive as a "liferaft" while the rest of society goes completely to pieces is pure fantasy. All it will take is a group of armed men in a pickup truck to pull up the driveway one morning before dawn and drag us out of bed, and that's the end of that story. Think that can't happen? Look at Europe in the 20th century. In fact, my wife's great-great-grandfather in Germany was murdered in his house by two men who came to steal the food that he had stored away. My wife's grandmother, who is still alive, was a child and watched from the other room as it happened.
In order to have any power over your situation post-peak, or post-catastrophe, or post-financial-meltdown, IMO, you have to be part of a larger social organization that can influence the behavior of others. How was this done in the past? Well at least one way was to form a local militia. And when the local militias cooperate or are controlled centrally (regionally or otherwise, not the case in Iraq, unfortunately), then you have order and security and life goes on.
Iraq is a good, if unfortunate, example - no central control, no societal organization and the result is chaos without personal safety for anyone. Try growing vegetables and being left alone under those circumstances!
If you truly want safety and food post-peak, it may help not to be in an urban environment, where you are completely dependent on others for the basics of life. You will also likely be more comfortable if you are prepared with a wood stove, no debt, some sustainability skills and something of value to trade with your neighbors.
This, combined with being part of the effort to form groups and to organize, may result not only in survival, but in some degree of comfort (if not prosperity by previous standards), under the new circumstances.
"No man is an island, no man stands alone."
Don't assume people here are doing nothing. Some of us have children and jobs which must go on as normal, until an appropriate time can be agreed upon to make a prudent and timely change. It's one incredible dilemma and at our house we converse about it daily. Our previous "retirement" dream has been scrapped. We have picked a plan B, but hope we have a couple years to act on it which will be timed with our youngest graduating. We will try to also create somewhat of a "safe haven" for our teenagers, even though we are advising them to pursue their own goals for now. I could write a book to answer your question, and it would make quite an interesting book or movie, and I'm sure all the rest of you have interesting stories to tell as well. We are somewhat excited about our Plan B, in that it may be a better life with the value changes we have made. Isn't that partly what PO is all about? In the meantime, I'm collecting books to keep me entertained until I'm 100, just in case Amazon.com goes out of business. And walking and biking a lot, something that has also increased my quality of life. (We already have a large organic garden and backyard chickens.)
depleted. Two years after damned near extinct.
BTW--avid hunter in the Adirondacks.