<Of rigs and pipelines The Oil Drum Tertzakian: A Review by Dave>

163 comments on Friday Open Thread

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totoneila on March 24, 2006 - 11:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hello Leanan,

I don't know. This could be another thread all in itself where we all brainstorm this idea.  Every wellhead could have a monitor that sends an extraction rate signal to a database that is visible to everyone worldwide.  Count the mining trucks--make sure only half are running, etc.  Simmons talks about the need for total transparency, this would be an excellent start.  If there is an aggregate will, we will find a way.

Even if this 'choke program' was a temporary plan with a duration of under a year, it would widely alert everyone for the need to Powerdown.  It would also reveal the 'rocks under the rapids'; those social structures and infrastructures most stress-prone to depletion.  If, for example, this temporary plan resulted in the deaths of ten million Americans at the hands of other Americans from ERoVI, it might so horrify the others that before the real geological downslope arrives: we would have no problem politically organizing for biosolar ERoEI > ERoVI.  In effect, the deaths of ten million violent deaths would not be in vain as it would prevent the ERoVI deaths of 150 million.  Far better to peacefully die than to be hacked to death.

Obviously, this is a subject that needs much discussion, but is all hinges on if cooperation can be greater than conflict-- the terrific Stuart Staniford-Matt Savinar debate that recently occurred springs too mind.  Are most TODers on Stuart's side or Matt's side in this discussion?

The current worldwide attitude is the continuation of the  easy-motoring Energy Fiesta Kunstler so often writes about.  I think many posters subconsciously are calculating how long the party lasts, with no desire to change their world.

"We see the rising floodwaters, secretly hoping the others drown."

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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Leanan on March 24, 2006 - 11:15pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Every wellhead could have a monitor that sends an extraction rate signal to a database that is visible to everyone worldwide.  

Assuming this was even technologically possible...how would you enforce it?  Who would be the one telling the likes of ExxonMobil, Saudi Aramco, and Hugo Chavez that they were going to have to open up, or else?  What would you do if they just laugh in your face?  What's the penalty for cheating?  Fire up the nuclear weapons?

If we can't even agree on Kyoto, there is no way we'll agree on something like this.  

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Oilrig medic on March 24, 2006 - 11:55pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I agree, no one would limit production because they are asked ore even told to.  Large governments could place and end consumer tax like the ones proposed for guns and tobacco.  If a 2.5$ gallon jumped to 3.5$ we would prefer fuel efficency more and commuting etc would come about.
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totoneila on March 25, 2006 - 2:20am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hello Oilrig Medic,

I think you are forgetting the profit incentive.  If the oil, gas, and coal companies were allowed to keep 33% of the increased profits from shutting down half their operations during a temporary 'choke' period, and the other 66% was used to fund a bootstrapping of initial biosolar habitats-- billions of bucks to kickstart Powerdown could be raised.  The detritovore desire for ancient detritus can be used to leverage the desire of those biosolars who wish to break their addiction by powering down.  Jevon's Paradox says any excess energy saved by the biosolars will be eagerly used by the addicts anyways.  All we have to do is make the addicts pay heavily to the biosolars by a financing function of letting the oil companies profitably tighten the screws by reducing demand.  Let's find out just how inelastic energy demand really is.  Stockholders make money short-term-->no big deal, what really counts are real assets like food, water, ecosystem health.

My usual disclaimer: I am no expert, would more learned TODers please evaluate?

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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totoneila on March 25, 2006 - 1:56am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hello Leanan,

All good questions!  I am no genius, or even an expert in most of these thread topics, but maybe if enough people put their heads together in brainstorming: some breakthroughs might be reached.  Somehow, I fantasize that TODers and other forums are prepared with well-evaluated alternative Action Plans when Billions realize that we all are suddenly doing the Wiley E. Coyote Airdance.

If Iran suddenly sets the Mideast in flames-- believe me, the nuclear weapons will be fired up, up, and away anyhow.  Hell, all indications are GO for the pre-emptive use of these badboys.  I hope We can do better than that.

Consider my earlier suggestion of turning off nightlights on billboards and storesigns: virtually painless to do.  Somehow, I don't think anyone is willing to die for their beliefs that signage for Preparation H, or any other product or service must be night-time illuminated.  Even the employees of these companies would not start shooting.

Yet, I can forsee huge numbers of Peakniks emailing their politicians telling them that their re-election chances depend on them legislating lights out.  A tightly targeted, single issue 'viral marketing campaign' to get millions of other people to corner their pols on this issue would bring results.  Look how quickly the Amber Alert System spread from state to state when the people put the pressure on. Just lather, rinse, and repeat.

Assume Richard Rainwater and his buddies can be convinced to donate the initial funding, and we all kick in as much as we can.  When the press starts covering this story, all kinds of non-Peakniks will be wondering,  "What the Hell is going on"?  They will come to TOD and other websites to keep the momentum growing.

Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ  Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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Leanan on March 25, 2006 - 8:09am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Consider my earlier suggestion of turning off nightlights on billboards and storesigns: virtually painless to do.

No, it isn't.  People are paying the power bill for those lights for a reason.  

I used to work at a small restaurant along a highway.  After nightfall, if we didn't have our lighted sign on, we had no customers.  The lighted sign made a huge difference.  

Those lights are some peoples' jobs.

Not saying we can't turn them off, but it won't be painless.  

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163 comments on Friday Open Thread

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