223 comments on Saturday Open Thread
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
223 comments on Saturday Open Thread
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“The infrastructure of suburbia can be described as the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of the world.”
—JH Kunstler
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
link to Chavez story
If Chavez started a Powerdown program combined with a voluntary cultural shift to one child families, he could dribble out the detritus for highly profitable export for decades. Otherwise, this country will eventually be caught in the 'Detritus Dependency Trap' like the US and other countries.
Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
You may be sadly correct, check out this Yahoo news link:
http://tinyurl.com/jk5xx
Is this the truth or milgov propaganda--How can we know the real facts? IMHO, makes no sense for Venezuela to tease or anger the US elites.
Bob Shaw in Phx,AZ Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200603211834
After all, a dictator is a dictator.
For those of you who like to insinuate that George Bush is the real fascist and that the Venezuelan is merely a populist, you might want to remind yourself that by January, 2008, GWB will no longer be in office, while Mr. Chavez for all intents and purposes will be there for life.
I seem to recall that Mr. Hitler was elected and Mr. Hussein always had surprisingly high approval ratings.
You are incorrect. On March 5, 1933 the last free elections were held in Germany. The people denied Hitler his majority, giving the Nazis only 44 per cent of the total vote despite massive Nazi propaganda and SS/SA intimidation of the electorate.
Hitler simply proclaimed himself to be above the constitution, commenced unfettered spying on the populace, detained individuals without warrant and spirited them away to remote camps, controlled all information release, appointed himself Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, and manufactured evidence to justify pre-emptive warfare and regime change.
Yes the Nazi Party had the most seats but did not get a popular majority of the votes (50%+1 vote). This inspite of massive intimidation by the Nazi, Nationalists and the Communist and Socialists. Lots of people were cracking heads back then. The nearest party in popular vote had 18%.
However the Nationalist Party (DNVP) joined in a coalition with the NSDAP which was well over 50%. The Catholic Party later joined to give Hitler the 2/3rds vote he needed to become a dictator "legally."
By this point in time in Germany the center parties were reeling, and the Socialist (SPD) and Commies were the strongest on the hard left, and in a minority.
Link at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_election,_1933
Then Hitler, like Chavez, essentially usurped full power and ended the Weimar Republic. Chavez is an embryonic dictator, albeit one who is popular with the poor of that nation (usually with darker skins) than the middle and upper classes.
What else is interesting is that Germany was the most educated country per capita in 1933 when it freely elected Hitler to lead the nation.
And I believe that the USA was the most educated nation on a per capita basis when it elected George II in 2004.
I do not believe the same can be said for Venezuela.
Why should anyone believe your biased source of news?
Just because you post a link does not make it true.
Seems you have an axe to grind against Chavez.
What might that be?
Let's see. Could it be because his "Bolivarian Circles" have violently assaulted his opposition? Because his police have been known to randomly fire into demonstrations against him? Because he is chummy with Castro? Because his bureaucracy uses the Tascon list (the original petition list for recall against him) to blacklist the entire opposition, down to opposition voters? Because he has switched his elections to using paperless computerized balloting machines, with which he not only has made recounts and vote auditing impossible, but which have destroyed the right to a secret ballot? Because he will form warm relations with anyone who opposes the US, even Mugabe? Because he has defunded hospitals in regions that voted against him, causing the health systems there to deteriorate? Because he has tried to foment war in several neighboring countries? Because he shelters FARC members from justice?
Opposing Bush is one thing. But I am amazed at the willingness of people on the left to latch on to anyone who opposes him, no matter how vile he might be.
If only they were opposing some admirable, US supported democracy like '80s El Salvador, they would be able to enjoy all the benefits of enlightened, tolerant governance.
He is clearly undermining an established democracy so that he can be "President for Life", yet that is "OK" as long as he opposes the US.
So, for you, Dictators of the Right, Bad,
Dictators of the Left, Good.
It also points out that a stable society requires a strong middle class, which is what we used to have (and it worked very well for us too). We are busy ripping that apart now, and our stability is going with it.
Double points to whoever can provide a link to the video. Contained is a very interesting exchange regarding the "presidency for life" issue. You can only truly understand this issue when you are watching Hugo getting grilled by Koppel.
Read again the list of his misdeeds provided by the previous poster, and I challenge you to repeat with a straight face that they are intolerable acts of tyranny.
This is the second time that you've responded to me on the subject of Mr. Chavez. I suggest the third time you add something of substance. Both times you have attacked me and not the argument. This is an unacceptable form of debate. My axe to grind with Mr. Chavez is that I don't believe he is what he appears to some people. I think I've made that abundantly clear with the material I've presented on the subject. You are welcome to your opinion of Mr.Chavez, I understand that you don't agree with mine, nor feel I have the right to express it. If you have something to say in defence of Mr. Chavez, say it. Otherwise, I would appreciate it if you left me alone.
I guess that Democracy was the Y2K computer failure. Democracy wasn't Y2K-compliant.
And you find that different from GWB?. As for there for life, if the US govermental system did not have the 2 term rule, your politians might be inclined to invest more in the future instead of worrying about the next circus.
Is it so very wrong to use the wealth of your country to the benefit of its people? I find the anti american rhetoric unhelpful, but in light of that coming out of Washington entirely justified. It will take some more years and elections to see if the man is a genuine democrat.
"in 1999, a National Constituent Assembly drafted a new constitution that increased the presidential term to six years; an election was subsequently held on 30 July 2000 under the terms of this new constitution.
"election results: Hugo CHAVEZ Frias reelected president; percent of vote - Hugo CHAVEZ Frias 59.5%, Francisco ARIAS 37.5%, Claudio FERMIN 3%
note: a special presidential recall vote on 15 August 2004 resulted in a victory for CHAVEZ; percent of vote - 58% in favor of CHAVEZ fulfilling the remaining two years of his term, 42% in favor of terminating his presidency immediately"
Please note the source of this information:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html
I assume most understand the length of a U.S. presidential term.
Venezuelan president can serve for two consecutive terms. So can the U.S. president.
Until either man suspends his country's constitution, comparisons to Hitler for either is foolish and adolescent.
OK. Fair enough. But let's engage in an exercise now. Let's take a look at the word 'almost.' Can you point out the part where it wasn't a failure? Certainly you read it carefully enough to notice. Your next sentence highlights the importance of details.