176 comments on Sunday Open Thread
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GAIA Host Collective
In my opinion the number one question we're going to face during the next year or two, is how do we stop an attack on Iran. Forget global meltdown and Peak Oil for a bit, these things are threats we face in the future. Iran is far more of an 'immediate concern' and could bring on the effects of Peak Oil far quicker than actually 'running out of oil' ever could.
What worries me, is that the current Bush administration has a great deal of support for taking some sort of action against Iran, especially in Congress, and not just in the Republican group. I seem to remember hearing various politicians stating that waiting and allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons is a greater threat/risk, than taking action, before it's too late. This of course in a question of 'balance' and relatively small things can upset or sway such a balance.
There is also the 'Israeli equation.' What happens if Israel decides to lauch an attack on Iran? Is that worse or better for the US? Is attacking the nuclear facilities enough? Isn't 'regime change' in Iran the only viable and long-term solution to the Iranian question? These are difficult and complicated questions.
Perhaps Tony Blair could even stop such an attack. Let's imagine that literally threw himself into campaigning against an attack, with the same energy and vigour that he used to justify the war with Iraq. By doing this he might even wipe-out the stain on his reputation, save his legacy and secure his place in history. Surely this would be the kind of challange he loves, once more at the centre of the world stage, travelling from country to country, city to city, and speaking to millions at anti-war demonstrations. His rhetorical skills, and flowing words, mezmerising the adoring crowds, maybe even flanked by Bono and Sting holding guitars! Could he do it, could he swing the American people behind an anti-war stance? I think he just might pull it off. If only an angel would whisper in his ear!
If I was him, I'd go for it, and definitively break with Bush. I fear though that his gone too far down the road to perdition, and redemtion, is well nigh impossible.
As for myself, I am for the human race.
You might get in trouble for that too.
There's anti-semitism and then there's anti-Semitism :-)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/08/AR2006040801082_2.html
(which is down right now, so I can only quote indirectly) and discussion of this is making the usual rounds:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/8/235510/7871
The suggestion has been made that this is a sort of palace coup - an attempt to prevent such an attack by leaking the information to the press.
It isn't just the U.S. of course:
The Israelis are pushing for an attack soon - probably because they think there is a window of opportunity while Bush is in office.
The question as to why a nuclear attack is being contemplated has to do with the underground targets they are trying to destroy:
The conclusion being reached is that we are painting ourselves into a corner:
The attack on Iraq went forward because Iraq had WMD. This was not true.
The attack on Iran is going forward because Iran does not have WMD. See below.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060403/45107320.html
Nothing beats a faith based foreign policy and a Messianic leader concerned with providing a lasting legacy to the world.
I agree with the previous poster who suggested that if this attack goes forward that the USA be repudiated by all other nations of the world, that all trade and contact with the United States cease.
I feel that way and I am not a Muslim. I do not know how the world Muslim community will respond but I would be surprised if their sense of outrage is not greater than mine.
To our American friends, I would suggest that for you, Peak Oil will commence on the day that you bomb Iran.
Which, to our peril, includes both Bush and Ahmadinejad.
Bush is already a lame duck facing an increasingly independent and obstructive congress and a disenchanted electorate. I suspect that an attack would further fragment any remaining support for Bush and possibly result in his impeachment.
Ahmadinejad is unpopular due to a failed economic policy. Once Iran is attacked the populace will unite behind him. He will become stronger, not weaker.
Most revealing will be the response from other nations to the Hersh report. I would expect increased muslim nation solidarity despite religious differences. North Korea is in some form of strategic pact with Iran. China has invested in Iranian energy resources. Russia has an opportunity to run their Afghanistan defeat in reverse. Europe has to ponder where next winters NG will come from; they know it will not come from the US. Dubai and the other nations on the Gulf know that they, not the US, will form the frontlines in any subsequent conflict (remember those nice photos of a surreal Dubai waterfront development posted last month?). The "Bolivar Bloc" in South America will likely draw closer together.
I think Stuart's analysis is correct. The sources are speaking out of a concern for the decisions being made and the potential negative outcomes visible to any rational actor. They are not, as Sailorman suggests, speaking out due to the Pentagon conducting a normal planning update. The sources appear to have the expertise to discern between the two.
If you lose, you pay one dollar to my favorite charity, The Nature Conservancy.
Want to put your money where your mouth is?
(Honor system: I'll trust you to contribute if you lose, and you trust me. O.K.?)
RR
If the Iranians already have Russian warheads, then what is the point in attacking Iranian enrichment facilities. For that matter, what would be the point in building enrichment facilities, knowing that this itself would be provacative?
I found this from the Times article you noted (thanks!) quite revealing:
"The Sunday Times was last week given the same message. A senior White House source said Bush and Cheney were determined not to bequeath the problem of a nuclear Iran to their successors. "It's not in their nature," he said.
White House insiders scoff that Bill Clinton left Al-Qaeda unchecked. A nuclear-armed Iran, they believe, is too dangerous to be left to a potential Democrat president.
One date is said to be etched in the minds of military planners: 2008. Word has gone out that the Iranian nuclear crisis must be resolved by then or the regime of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, with its Israel-baiting rhetoric, will face military consequences."
It reminds me of the point made by the Indian General after the Gulf War, "Don't fight the Americans without nuclear weapons."
As to some other comments on this point, it is unlikely that Iran would have its first nuke or two for three years.
Yup. That President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, with his Israel-baiting rhetoric. Better bomb him quick.
And funny how this story got no play in the US media. Appears to concern an American citizen.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1750051,00.html