62 comments on Pelamis: A Shot in the Dark?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
62 comments on Pelamis: A Shot in the Dark?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- What "Lower Consumption" Means
- Tricking and Treating the Future
- Meeting Energy Decline Part-Way - Potatoes?
TOD:Europe
- The Future of Nuclear Energy: Facts and Fiction - Part IV: Energy from Breeder Reactors and from Fusion?
- The US stimulus and "green jobs"
- EROWI - energy return of water invested
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Saturday 7th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 30th October 2009
- Details of Solar Flagships Released
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
—Albert Einstein
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
This image towards the bottom
http://www.speakerfactory.net/wbuoy2.jpg
http://www.windside.com/index.html
Birds avoid 'em and they're prettier, I think, than those propeller-blade things.
Also, there's got to be some simple technology that can be used to scare off the birds. Maybe a high-pitched sound alert when birds are detected by the windmill.
The bird problem must be solved!
Sina,
Go to google and put in this phrase in the search bar:
Wind turbines and birds
You will have reports to read for days and days! The problem is, the results are somewhat inconclusive. From my reading (and I have made my eyes hurt reading the subject, since I am involved in an experimental wind turbine firm)
the main consensus looks like this:
a. Wind turbines do sometimes kill birds.
b. Location means everything. If the turbines are located in a flyway of large predatory birds, the damage can be severe. If the birds are already endangered species or a population small in number, it becomes a serious issue to confront.
c. In areas not frequented by larger predatory birds such as hawks, owls, eagles, the damage is less severe, and probably no worse than any other tall structure such as cell phone towers, guy cables to cell and broadcasting towers, taller glass buildings, and fossil fuel towers, etc. Birds do also strike those. Let us not forget the killing of birds by aircraft.
d. It is the spinning motion of the blade that makes wind turbines more dangerous to birds. They never know what hit them. However, some studies do indicate behavior change by the birds over time. The sight/smell of dead birds on the ground make the living ones leery to go there (this is not a joke, birds do "learn". Experiments have also been done with colered ribbon, noise makers, etc., to dissuade birds from going near wind turbines. The results are still inconclusive in most cases.
e. The issue of perception is crucial. Since wind is percieved by it's supporters as "environmentally friendly" power, any bird kill by wind turbines will be viewed much more seriously than the same kill would be viewed if it were caused by a fossil fuel plant. Thus, the Audoban Society, Seirra Club, National Wildlife Fund, etc., have shown great interest and made intensive studies of the bird kill issue, and the wind industry is always working to address it.
f. Regarding the above, almost no such scrutiny concerning bird kill has ever been placed on the fossil fuel industry. Open waste storage tanks are deadly to birds, and the "catch basin", "retention ponds" and lagoons for oil and coal "tailings" of many oil/coal drilling/processiong operations can contain hundreds, sometimes thousands of dead birds.
g. Other industries and agriculture can be deadly to birds. One of the great killers of predatory eagles and hawks is the fence, be it barbed wire or woven wire. When a predatory bird spots prey, their eyes focus to that prey, and the fence between them and the prey become invisible to them. I know that in Kentucky and Indiana, several eagles have been rescued from fences with broken wings.
In closing, wind power is expected to act to a higher standard than the fossil fuel industry, and rightfully so. Any developing technology reducing danger to birds, should and I think will be implemented.
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
Very expensive eagles they have down there.
In addition to ThatsItImOut's points, it's worth mentioning that the newer, bigger turbines with larger, slower-spinning blades are much easier for birds to avoid and pose less of a danger than the models of 20-30 years ago.
Cats are said to take upwards of 10 million birds a year, don't know what the auto estimates are.
http://www.ctaudubon.org/conserv/nature/cats.htm
also:
Cats kill hundreds of millions of birds annually in the United States, said Jimm Edgar of the Mount Diablo Audubon Society, citing an article in Birders World titled "Cats -- they're soft and cuddly. They're America's favorite pets. They're also natural-born killers."
"Domestic cat attacks ... (have) contributed catastrophically to the decimation of certain avian species, especially some of our most beloved songbirds in North America," the article asserts. The American Bird Conservancy concurs with the hundreds-of-millions figure.
Dairne Ryan of Fix Our Ferals, another cat rescue group, challenges it. "You can find studies that counter that," she said. "We would all like to see better statistics, but feral cats defy statistics."
Many birds are killed not by feral cats but by pet cats whose owners let them outside in the morning and bring them in at night, Ryan said.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/living/science/14465894.htm?source=rss&channel=cctim es_science
Compared to all this, windmills are an absolute pleasure. We worry about a couple of birds and ignore our wholsale destruction of them.
We often talk about how our societal organization is more so the problem than lack of technology. Offshore energy production is a good example. Unlike an on-shore energy platform, when you try to get permission for an offshore facility, you need to please the beureacrats of many governments at the same time: the Fed's who have jurisdiction over the 3-mile/200-mile coastal border and the State guys who take over once you try to string your cable onshore.