Waiting for the lights to go out

Here is a fascinating article from last year. There are apparently a bunch of people out there who are convinced that the rate of innovation is slowing drastically.

One of the strangest portents of the end of progress is the recent discovery that humans are losing their ability to come up with new ideas.

Jonathan Huebner is an amiable, very polite and very correct physicist who works at the Pentagon's Naval Air Warfare Center in China Lake, California. He took the job in 1985, when he was 26. An older scientist told him how lucky he was. In the course of his career, he could expect to see huge scientific and technological advances. But by 1990, Huebner had begun to suspect the old man was wrong. "The number of advances wasn't increasing exponentially, I hadn't seen as many as I had expected -- not in any particular area, just generally."

Puzzled, he undertook some research of his own. He began to study the rate of significant innovations as catalogued in a standard work entitled The History of Science and Technology. After some elaborate mathematics, he came to a conclusion that raised serious questions about our continued ability to sustain progress. What he found was that the rate of innovation peaked in 1873 and has been declining ever since. In fact, our current rate of innovation -- which Huebner puts at seven important technological developments per billion people per year -- is about the same as it was in 1600. By 2024 it will have slumped to the same level as it was in the Dark Ages, the period between the end of the Roman empire and the start of the Middle Ages.

This does not bode well for the techno-cornucopian position that we will be able to innovate our way out of the Peak Oil box - for instance by developing fusion reactors that fit in the trunk of an electric car or something.

This contrasts starkly with Ray Kurzweil's notion of an imminent "Technological Singularity", a spritual/technological notion that a transcendence of the human condition through technology is both possible and desirable. Needless to say, Kurzweil disagrees vehemently with Huebner's conclusions.

The linked article goes into this in some depth, touching on such disparate topics as capitalism, globalization, ethics and the nature of progress. I recommend it to anyone who is interested in the future of the human race.

There are apparently a bunch of people out there who are convinced that the rate of innovation is slowing drastically.

And I am one of them.  Indeed, that's how I came to peak oil.  I always figured technology would save us.  Until I started wondering why we weren't colonizing other planets, like those 1960s SF TV shows predicted.

I came to the conclusion that The End of Science was real.  As for why...I think Tainter has the right explanation.  The low-hanging fruit is plucked first.  We're running out of low-hanging fruit.

We have discussed this before, more than once.  Someone posted a nice link to a Business Week story about it, but it's on my other computer.  And  Discover magazine had an article about it a few months ago, too.

I was just reminded about the Fermi Paradox: the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for or contact with such civilizations.  As I thought about it, I realized it dovetails neatly with my opinion about the Peak Oil endgame.

I've long been convinced that intelligent species exist, but only for very short periods of time cosmologically speaking. I now believe that those species probably exist near the peak of their technological capabilities for only an extremely short time, probably less than 500 years, depending mainly on their rate of reproduction (less fertile species exist longer).

The reason is twofold: first, we develop on spheres where stored resources are axiomatically finite, and secondly our techological development allows us to rapdly dominate all the resources of that sphere. This leads automatically to a situation of overshoot, where the easily available stored resources support exponential population growth, followed by a Malthusian collapse. The time required to enter that overshoot depends on three things - the availability of resources, the overall fertility of the species, and their ingenuity. A reduction an any of these factors leads to a broader curve (slower ascent and descent) without changing its fundamental shape.

I no longer see expansion into space as a saviour. the reason is that the growing ability to exploit local resources causes the population to start exploding well in advance of the development of pinnacle technologies like mass space flight. I also expect that the utilization of renewables would not play a major role in saving a species, because by the time the need to collect such diffuse energy was obvious it would be too late due to exponential population pressure and the depletion of the foundational stored energy sources.

I'm obviously guilty of massive anthropocentrism here, because my primary assumption is that intelligent species arise in conditions much like those we have here. Still, it seems like a reasonable first approximation.

Those with time to indulge in a little escapism might enjoy the recent SF novel Spin (by Robert Charles Wilson).  It employs Gliderguider's notion about brief windows for advanced civilizations as a key element in the story (sorry to give away a bit of it!).
It does seem like the Fermi Paradox has something important to say about a potentially harnessable source of infinite energy just waiting out in Nature to be discovered, to save an upcoming intelligent species from the sociobiological karma of its origins:  then where is it?  
So, the existence of the Fermi Paradox proves that Zero Point Energy is a chimera?  That's a useful notion.  I think :-)
Here's a fuller statement of the chain of logic about energy implied by Fermi's Paradox:

  • An intelligent, space-going species needs lots of energy if it is to persist.
  • Planetary resources and insolation are insufficient to permit such a species to persist.
  • Such a species needs access to small-scale, controllable, high-density energy.
  • Such an energy source must not depend on overly limited inputs - indeed, the less limitation on inputs (up to and including an infinite source) the better.
  • The availability of such an energy source is necessary (though admittedly not sufficient) to ensure the species' survival.
  • The lack of such an energy source will doom the species in short order.
  • The fact that we can detect no such species is a good hint that they don't exist.
  • They should exist, so the best explanation for the fact that they don't is that they existed at some point but did not persist.
  • The surest explanation for their lack of persistence is the lack of an appropriate energy source.

    Therefore, the existence of Fermi's Paradox proves that such an energy source does not exist.

    The conclusion:  Ultimately there is no way out of the finite-resource box.

  • Unless we're living in a simulation (groan) :-)
    I don't know the explanation for the Fermi paradox, but "lack of energy" doesn't make much sense to me. Stars are everywhere we look, pouring out inconceivable amounts of energy. Every second the sun puts out more energy than we use in a hundred years. Only a modestly higher technology level than our own would allow creating a solar-based economy that would be more than enough to get started on interstellar exploration.

    Given the enormous energies that are just barely beyond our grasp, it is hard to believe that no civilization anywhere could manage to bridge that gap and produce a solar-powered interplanetary and then interstellar civilization.

    Stars are also inconceivably far apart so that the energy density from those stars is extremely low throughout most of the universe, unless you happen to be close to one of those stars. If we built a solar-powered vehicle it would receive extremely little energy from the sun by the time it reached the outer planets of our solar system. Currently, the fastest space craft built would take 40,000 years to reach the nearest stars - the triple system Alpha Centauri. That doesn't take into account the extremely hostile environment of space - hard vacuum, radiation, micrometeorites, etc. At present, interplanetary space travel is a pipe dream. It would take radically new technology to make it feasible.
    (that's 80,000 years, round trip ;-)

    One clarification: a "space travelling species" beaming out lots of electronic signals is still the same species after it returns to the dark ages, right? It's just that we're no longer detectable to other civilizations with advanced receivers.  

          I think we need a fellow named Andy Libby...
    I think you mean interstellar travel. Interplanetary is routinely done now via robotic probes and is certainly feasible with manned spacecraft using the existing technological base.
    But but but!!!

    What about Dilithium Crystals?

    Zero point energy is a well-accepted phenomena in physics. It has been verified experimentally by the Casimir effect, and in other ways. However, what I think you mean is the notion of a "free energy" device that can tap into the zero point energy to produce usable energy. Claims of free energy devices are shams similar to perpetual motion machines.
    Yes, that's indeed what I meant.  I know about the Casimir effect, but the jump from there to perpetual energy machines or scalar energy weapons requires just a bit too much suspension of disbelief even for this old hippy.
    I think it is a mistake to appoint energy as the only crucial resource for the survival of intelligent species. Far more important IMO is the depletion of biological resources needed to sustain life. We can survive without cars but we can hardly survive without food.
    I understand your concerns and share them. Ironically, I think that the only viable solution is to expand into space yet I am unsure that we will ever possess the political will to do so until it is too late. Interestingly, we possess the technology to do much of what such an effort would entail but instead of doing it we are doing other things, including driving ourselves into a population overshoot crisis. In one sense, from an energy perspective, it's "raining soup" out there but if we as monkeys are not smart enough to fashion ladders to get there and bowls to collect it, I guess we don't deserve it.
    You've got to be joking. Manned space exploration is extraordinarily expense and a complete waste of scarce resources.
    I agree with that!
    Ten years ago I'd have disagreed violently.  Today, not so.  With the advent of robotic technology like we've seen in the Mars Rovers I'm much less convinced that a human presence is required (or even helpful), at least for the things we need to do in space over the short term. Even pure science requiring microgravity has been successfully automated.

    Actually, my main objection to manned space flight for research and exploration isn't that it costs too much, but that it takes too long.  We spend extraordinary amounts of effort (effort=time and money) trying to make sure nobody gets killed.  Launch a robot, and if it blows up on the pad nobody but the designers (and maybe the odd computerized kitchen blender) mourns.

    The usual reasons given for going further into space than geosynchronous orbit have generally been resources, energy and human diaspora.  All have been revealed as pipe dreams as we got past the gee-whiz stage of space flight.  I used to be a Solar Power Satellite fan, but lately the idea of spending that kind of money to beam microwaves through the atmosphere has pretty much lost its appeal for me.

    We do need lots of observation and communications satellites to keep an eye on our planet in crisis and to link those in remote places into the global village.  Beyond that, we have ground-level problems aplenty to spend the money on.  Manned  space exploration isn't going to mitigate the impact of $100 oil on villages in Botswana, or even Indiana.

    The "mission to planet earth" stuff impressed the heck out of me.  finding lost cities, etc.
    Unless we can keep our numbers in check once they fall back to something sustainable, we're fucked.  And evolution does not favor keeping our numbers in check.  Successfully getting into space, and gaining access to more solar energy and the other resources in out solar system, is our only way out of this problem in the long run...not that it would support unbounded growth, but it would give us a LOT more maneuvering room than we have now.
    This contrasts starkly with Ray Kurzweil's notion of an imminent "Technological Singularity", a spritual/technological notion that a transcendence of the human condition through technology is both possible and desirable. Needless to say, Kurzweil disagrees vehemently with Huebner's conclusions.

    I recently read The Singularity is Near. While I disagree with a lot of what Kurzweil wrote, and he didn't even address the problem of future energy supplies, that book is mind-blowing. It gives you something to think about. Regardless of what happens with PO, there are certainly some interesting times ahead. But I have to wonder if someday Kurzweil won't wake up and think "Energy supplies....Should have thought more about that".

    RR

    RR

    The rate of major advances in physics tapered off in the 20th century. There was Einstein's special and general relativity, quantum physics, field theories, the "standard model" of subatomic partcle physics, and now (possibly) string theory. Most modern technology is based on discoveries in physics (solid-state electronics is based on quantum physics of semiconductors, nuclear technology is based on particle/atomic physics, etc.) Without new fundamental physics, where would the new technology come from? Really, the only major outstanding problem in physics is the unification of the gravitational force with the other known forces. (This is what is hoped for with string theory.) It seems that we are close to the "end of physics", therefore, the end of radically new technology. We will continue to refine and expand what we have (to the extent that we aren't limited by resource scarcity) but where are the great new technological innovations going to come from?

    The only hope might be a big advance in fusion technology which allows cheap abundant energy, or some theoretical breakthrough in string theory (or some competing model) which gives us a much deeper physical insight and could lead to radical new technologies. At present, neither of these possibilities seem likely.

    I started contemplating what the fundamental advances of the last one hundred years were.  I could come up with three: QM, DNA and HTTP - one each for the physical, biological and social spheres.  That just doesn't seem like a lot for a species that's supposedly smarter than bacteria.
    I was dealing specifically with physics. Its apparent that advances in physics in, say, the last 50 years, are very modest in comparison to the breakthroughs of the 19th and early 20th centuries. Physics is over. I believe there is still more progress to be made in the biological sciences, but its not obvious to me how that will help our energy situation and/or global warming.

    Someone joked once that we would soon reach a point where the rate at which library shelf space that is filled with scientific journals would soon exceed the speed of light.  

    This wouldn't violate the laws of relativity however as there would be no information being transmitted.

    You are quite far off the mark − it's simply that you are not aware of the relevant advances.  Science is continuing to move forward at a tremendous pace.  If I said "negative refraction" or "magic mode-locking" you would probably look at me as quixotically as if you said "atom bomb" to someone in 1944 or "laser" in 1960.  
    Nonsense. Negative refraction and magic mode-locking are simply extensions of existing technology. They're not even in the same league as the discovery nuclear fission or coherent light.
    Sometimes quality is more important than quantity.  Read "The Eighth Day of Creation" by Horace Freeland Judson if you want to appreciate what was involved in the discovery of DNA.  What a journey!
    There's some low-hanging fruit about how the nervous system really works still to be picked, as well as historical (worldview) consequences of DNA mapping everyone.  When Darwin finally sinks in after about the same 300 years it took Galileo to sink it, the social consequences of already-finished science will be very great.  
    We dont need any major new physics to make very usefull technological advances. There is plenty left to do in biotechnology, different kinds of nanotechnology and in handling information. We do for instance not yet know how our brain and our mind works.

    This could lead to new ways of gathering energy, much more efficient ways of using energy and enourmous cultural changes that could challange our old notions of what it is to be human and what life and death is. There is physical "room" for very intresting things, if we work on it.

    I would have thought the highest priority, applied technology breakthrough we need is the male contraceptive pill.

    If men get to choose which genes are preferred [and when], we may just dig ourselves out of this mess

    I see the rate problem as the inability of the world's 5,000,000,000 poor people to improve the technology they can't afford. It's among the affluent 1 billion where innovation is occuring.  The difference between the rich and poor in 1873 was much smaller than now.

    I guess I would look at it this way.  The affluent 1 billion are for the most part uninterested in developing things that are affordable and practical for the remaining 5 billion.  There simply isn't any money in it, so instead they 'innovate' by developing new ipods and cellphones and all that rot.

    Technologies that are practical for the 3rd world might be things like solar cookers that are easily made with materials that are available in the 3rd world.  It would eliminate the need to collect firewood, and reduce pressures on deforestation.  At least for a while - increasing human population would eventually overwhelm any ecosystem.

    Except, of course, Bill Gates.  He's going to find a cure for malaria so the 5 billion can become 8 billion.
    That's an amazingly cruel and thoughtless comment.
    The evidence is pretty clear that as a society improves child mortality and becomes more prosperous and educated they slow there birthrate.
    Yet it is historically accurate. Families don't immediately "downsize" and we've seen large families in the first world nations as they became wealthier especially in the first few generations as the wealth has come into play. The smaller family effect is a trailing edge effect after a generation or two so a jump from 5 billion to 8 billion would be entirely within reason.
    Not only within reason but probable. My grandfather that was born in 1896 was born in a world with 1 billion people. The US was 50% farm population and suffering from a heck of a lot of non-cureable diseases. He had 9 brothers and sisters.
      He got an education and received a Bachelor's in 1921. He had two children, but by the time my father and aunt became adults of breeding age in the late 1940's the world population had doubled to 2 billion. I reached breeding age in about 1970 when the world's population was about 4 billion. My one child is now 18 and, thank god, I'm not a grandfather yet, but by the time he has grown children the world will probably have 12 billion people, and our current 6 billion is destroying the world. Oh sh*t.But,to change as my family has done the world needs prosperity and education and quickly.
      I know the moron above is a right-wing troll. But his evil b.s. needs to be called what it is, evil,stupid and simplistic. If we don't identify narcicsistic BS they think that its all right.
    Bill Gates is simply applying his money to a goal where his "charitable" works can seem to be effective and his name revered.  As far as I'm concerned, that's vanity.  Wiping out malaria could easily be one of the worst things for this planet, people included.  As I understand it, malaria is a major factor that keeps large sections of rainforest from being settled.  I suppose you think making all the sections of the world now plagued by malaria habitable is a good thing.  Whatever!
    Exactly. It's a question of taking knowledge from basic research and applying them, and that, inevitably, revolves around social choice. The pyramids were built because the Pharoahs commanded that they should be built. The US went tot he moon because the Russians might get there first. Older men can now screw regularly because they pay a lot for the privledge.

    It's all a matter of priorities.

    There are apparently a bunch of people out there who are convinced that the rate of innovation is slowing drastically.

    Basically, people who believe this do not have an accurate sense of time.

    I think you are incorrect.  

    There were commercial plane flights about a decade after the Wright Brother first flew.  Not so with spaceflight.  Why?  Because the problems are harder to solve.  

    Tainter takes a quantitative approach, as much as possible.  He looks at the number of patents granted, for example:

    He also considers the money companies spend on R&D vs. the payback on their investment, and the benefits of medicine.  

    The declining productivity of the United States health care system illustrates clearly the historical development of a problem-solving field. Rescher (1980) points out: Once all of the findings at a given state-of-the-art level of investigative technology have been realized, one must move to a more expensive level.... In natural science we are involved in a technological arms race: with every victory over nature the difficulty of achieving the breakthroughs which lie ahead is increased.

    The declining productivity of medicine is due to the fact that the inexpensive diseases and ailments were conquered first (the basic research that led to penicillin costing no more than $20,000), so that those remaining are more difficult and costly to resolve (Rescher 1978). And as each increasingly expensive disease is conquered, the increment to average life expectancy becomes ever smaller.

    Note that this does not literally mean the end of science.  It's more like "peak science."  Yes, there will always be more knowledge out there.  But it will be more difficult to extract, and more difficult to turn into a useful form.  If it weren't, it would have already been discovered.

    It doesn't show me a very good understanding of technology to give me that spacecraft line.  Spaceflight is relatively simple.  That's demonstrated by the fact that manned flight was possible with 1950's technology.  You are confusing technology with cost, and perhaps even energy ;-).

    How many joules does it cost to lift my body (and a suitable container) up out of the gravity well?

    Why the heck would you assume that 'free energy' would show up to solve that?

    (the per capita stuff proves nothing at all about total rate of innovation.  in fact, it hide it.  more engineers (a good thing) dilutes the per capita messurement.)

    You are confusing technology with cost, and perhaps even energy ;-).

    No.  I am arguing that cost and energy are integral parts of technology.

    more engineers (a good thing) dilutes the per capita messurement.)

    Why?  If discoveries are infinite and equally accessible, shouldn't more scientists and engineers mean more patents?  

    I think you were going to show for me that innovation was slowing ...

    Not that costs for certain actions (spaceflight) remain high.

    Not that "discoveries are infinite and equally accessible"

    I think the point is that the marginal benefit of innovations, whether economic in the case of technology, or effect on the discipline in the case of science, is and has been declining.
    I might be willing to discuss that with you, but we should clear the original question first:

    Puzzled, he undertook some research of his own. He began to study the rate of significant innovations as catalogued in a standard work entitled The History of Science and Technology. After some elaborate mathematics, he came to a conclusion that raised serious questions about our continued ability to sustain progress. What he found was that the rate of innovation peaked in 1873 and has been declining ever since. In fact, our current rate of innovation -- which Huebner puts at seven important technological developments per billion people per year -- is about the same as it was in 1600. By 2024 it will have slumped to the same level as it was in the Dark Ages, the period between the end of the Roman empire and the start of the Middle Ages.

    The article above refers to a study by James Huebner (more here), which divides the rate of innovation by the current U.S. population:

    Huebner used two measures of innovation, the 7,200 major innovations listed in "The History of Science and Technology" and the number of patents granted in the United States. He plotted the first against world population and then divided the number of patents granted in each decade by the U.S. population.

    Now, I think he's done is make a sneaky semantic definition that "innovation" must be "per population."

    I don't get that.  Consider the mental experiment in which an island nation is composed of 100 scientists, each producing one innovation per year.  Add another 100 scientists, you get another 200 innovations per year, but per Huebner you'd be "flat."

    It's gets interesting if you add yet another 100 scientists (100 more innovations) and 300 gardeners (the place had been getting overgrown).  Whoops, per Huebner the "innovation" just dropped by half (even though it went up in real terms).

    ... so I call B.S. on dividing by innovation.  It only has any kind of interest if you aesthetic/moral goal is to get everyone in your population involved in innovation (no more lifeguards!!!!).

    oops, B.S. on dividing by population, of course.
    I do think that the quantity of fundamental breakthroughs is in decline, but I have to agree with Odograph that this analysis technique is rather slanted.

    1. True genius, which leads to dramatic discontinuous innovation, if freakishly rare. We don't often get a Copernicus, da Vinci, or Einstein. Looking at this on a per-capita basis won't show us much. But it only takes one innovation by a Sabin or Salk to start vaccinating the whole world.

    2. Dividing by population calculates the likelihood that any one person will innovate, but it obscures the total amount of innovation. With population essentially flat in the high-tech western countries (excluding immigration), and growing in education-deprived countries, it is pretty clear that you will train fewer scientists per capita worldwide, leading to fewer innovations per capita. Your country may vary.

    3. Innovation quality is hard to measure, but quantity is up. Total US patents granted have increased steadily:
             1963      48,971     (18% foreign)    to
             2004    181,302     (48% foreign)

    source: http://www.uspto.gov/go/taf/us_stat.pdf

    That's interesting that he was dividing by population to get his "decline". Even if that's true, as the population of scientists and engineers increases, innovation in absolute terms can be expected to accelerate.

    The big news in this regard is China. We talk a lot here about China's economic growth in terms of its impact on the energy situation, but I know in my field we are seeing an enormous emerging effect from Chinese research. More and more papers are appearing with fundamental breakthroughs from Chinese institutions.

    For generations, a billion Chinese have been trapped in feudal conditions, living as primitive peasants one step from starvation. Now, at last, China's economy is improving, and one of the major effects of this is that millions of potentially brilliant researchers are being saved from lives of back-breaking labor and allowed to work up to their intellectual potential.

    I believe we are going to see a tremendous burst of creativity and discovery as a quarter of the human race is finally allowed to bring its intellectual powers to bear on the problems we face. Millions of potential Chinese Einsteins and Newtons will finally be able to offer their gifts to the human race, just when we need them most.

    We tend to fall into the trap here of thinking of people as just a cost, a drag, mouths to feed and needs to fill. What we forget is that, on average, people produce more than they consume. The riches we see around us are thanks to hundreds and thousands of years of people doing just that. As China steps up to the international plate it, too, will not be a net cost to humanity, but a net boon, perhaps the greatest we have ever seen.

    "I believe we are going to see a tremendous burst of creativity and discovery as a quarter of the human race is finally allowed to bring its intellectual powers to bear on the problems we face."

    Could be.  It'll be interesting to see how the Culture(s) of China develop at this point..  I wonder how much innovation comes with new freedoms, or whether it grows with need, such as we seem to be heading into..  Is Necessity the Mother of Invention?

    I think that we have missed something here.  It is all the safety devices that exist that are allowing the stupid to survive and deluting the ratio of inovation.
    The word is spelled with two "n"s. In --as coming from within. Nova --as in new. And then -tion for nominalizing the verb form, innovate.

    Diluting comes from the simpler root: to dilute.

    There is no evidence that mental ability is a major selective trait. At the time they procreate, most 20-something humans are not yet using the the neocortical part of their brains for selection of an appropriate mate. It's more of a sniff test.

    Just about every huan being "invents". It's no big deal. The issue is more so, what specifically do you invent?

    Important discoveries in physics have been slowing.  Without new physics, where will the technological breakthroughs come from? Certainly we will have technological advances based on current science (the internet is a good example), but the really dramatic breakthroughs like electricity, radio, solid-state electronics, nuclear technology, etc., seem less likely.

    On the other hand, Stephen Hawking has used Godel's incompleteness theorem to argue that physics will never be complete:

    Gödel and the end of physics

    As Leanan says above, what we're seeing may be "Peak Science".  The major breakthroughs you cite are the Ghawars and Burgans of science.  They were easy to find, and yielded "light sweet crude" ideas.  To torture the metaphor a little further, we're now doing a lot of a lot of tertiary recovery in science - essentially optimizing our processes with enhanced technology to wring the last benefits out of the existing wells of knowledge (e.g. making more powerful processors by reducing feature sizes rather than using any new underlying scientific principles).

    While Hawking is right, in science as in the oil industry production rate is a crucial consideration.  If we need two huge new scientific ideas a century to keep our civilization going, and we only get one, we're in a pickle.  Developing a bunch of small technological improvements on existing concepts is like drilling more infill wells in a depleting field.  We all know how much that helps.

    How isolated do you think "the majors" in physics were in time?  This is what I meant in my frst comment ... those things evolved over a century, but there is this natural human tendancy to compress such ancient history into the blink of an eye.

    Einstein published his first paper in 1905.  It forty years later that the whole bomb thing capped the story.

    ... but forty years (BLINK!) it's all one thing to someone looking back at the great "moments" in physics.

    During those 40 years there were tremendous developments in physics, notably quantum theory, discoveries of atomic structure and subatomic particles, development of semiconductors, analog electronics, radio, telephone, etc. The first half of the 20th century was an incredibly fertile period for scientific discovery. Advances in physics are just not happening at that pace anymore.
    And the 40 years now is seeing an equivalent explosion around molecular biology.

    You arent' making some claim that the same fields have to explode over and over again are you?

    No, I agree. This is the time for the biological sciences to make their big advances. I'm just saying that the fundamental discoveries in physics seem to be winding down. Books have been written about the "end of physics".
    I found some growth in physics ;-)

    http://www.dorsey.com/files/Nanotechfig1.gif

    Growth in 'nanotube' patents.

    Nanotech has been trumpeted as the next big thing, but it's based entirely on existing physics, same as the internet and modern consumer electronics. Thats fine, but no real breakthrough for physics. For that matter, has anyone yet seen any new product based on nanotechnology? Plenty of horror stories about the dangers though (biological and environmental dangers, the possibility of cheap, ubiquitous weapons or surveillance, etc.)

    Now, if physics were to finally unify gravity and quantum theory, that would be a breakthough.

    If we started this thread on general "innovation" by the human species, why would we want to narrow that now to "existing physics?"

    A lot of the nano stuff spans physics and chem, but as an old chem major I wouldn't say that "de-innovates" the inventions.  Everything is based on something older.

    Really, I think you retreat into a tautology.  We can never invent the things we've already invented.  We've got to move on.

    BTW, have they stopped giving Nobel prizes in physics?  That might convince me that it is done ;-)

    General nanotechnology patents:

    http://www.epa.gov/cfo/images/iac_image016.gif

    I think, as the graph suggests, "peak science" was in the mid '40s to mid-'50s.  

    I'm reminded of an article that appeared in the LA Times.  It was called Utopia lost.  The author, Andrew Yarrow, bemoans America's loss of optimism:

    AMERICA HAS never been richer, but it once was much more optimistic -- even utopian -- about its future.

    In 1956, Fortune magazine published "The Fabulous Future," a book of essays by luminaries forecasting a nation of technological and economic wonders by 1980. Adlai Stevenson spoke of "the most extraordinary growth any nation or civilization has ever experienced." George Meany predicted "ever-rising" living standards. And David Sarnoff gushed, "There is no element of material progress we know today that will not seem from the vantage point of 1980 a fumbling prelude."

    That same year, that wild utopian, Richard Nixon, then vice president in the Eisenhower administration, heralded a 30-hour, four-day workweek "in the not too distant future." Gallup polls found that only 3% of the population questioned whether the nation was enjoying "good times," and just 8% doubted that the good times would keep getting better indefinitely.

    From the end of the Korean War to the peak of the Vietnam War, American media trumpeted a utopian future. A 1953 issue of Time predicted that a newborn would be twice as wealthy by her high school graduation and that a worker 100 years in the future would produce in seven hours what he now produced in 40. In 1954, Life magazine predicted a technotopia of jets, computers, color TVs, superhighways and doubled living standards by 1976. In 1959, Newsweek predicted that the 1960s would bring short workweeks, automatic highways and self-operating lawnmowers.

    Someone named Martha Voght wrote the following response:

    Andrew L. Yarrow, in "Utopia lost" (Opinion, Feb. 25), describes the rosy forecasts about America's economic future made during the 1950s and wonders what has happened to our sense of optimism. He ignores one forecast that turned out to be correct -- geologist M. King Hubbert's prediction in 1956 that U.S. oil production would peak in the early 1970s. Hubbert was widely dismissed as an alarmist, but production in the Lower 48 states began to decline after 1970. Is it a coincidence that Americans' happiness index peaked between 1965 and 1973?

    Geologist Kenneth Deffeyes has applied Hubbert's methods to world oil production and arrived at a peak production date of 2005. Any authors of "utopian dreams" better include a long chapter on alternative energy sources.

    Whether they know about peak oil or not, Americans intuitively understand that things are different now.  We are not going to be staying in hotels on the moon or taking a flying car to work any time soon, as seemed so possible in the '50s.  

    Things are very different now, but I think those quotes open the discussion to more than simple technological innovation.

    I wouldn't want to confabulate economic factors with the fundimental question of whether innovtion is slowing.

    I wouldn't want to confabulate economic factors with the fundimental question of whether innovtion is slowing.

    And I don't it is possible to separate them.  Economic factors are the reason innovation is slowing.

    Tainter's The Collapse of Complex Societies is essentially an economic argument.

    Huebner used patents as a measure of innovation.

    If a separate measure were not available he would not be able to do his comparisons of innovation relative to population or investment.

    So, of course the are separable.  Otherwise there would not be two axes on those graphs.

    Here are a couple graphs showing biotech patents and drug approvals growing pretty soundly over the last few decades:

    http://www.bio.org/speeches/pubs/er/images/patents_approvals2.jpg

    And here are the overall patent statistics 1963-2004:

    http://www.themeat.org/rant/patentStats1963-2004.png

    In absolute terms, they are going up.

    there is no 'low hanging fruit' in bio-tech science.
    to enter you need a multi-million to multi-billion dollar facility and stock it with people who spent about half a decade in school dedicated to a specific function of said lab.
    so basically bio-tech further proves the theory rather then disproving it, otherwise someone like me could set up a bio-tech lab in his basement on 1,000 dollars or less.
    Again, we were talking about the rate of innovation, not ROI.

    ROI is actaully complicated because in a competitive market people will be overspending to get an innovation days ealier than their opponent, and nab the patent.

    The final days of the human genome race provide a case in point:

    http://www.researchmatters.harvard.edu/story.php?article_id=205

    Yes, that's it's exactly.  The days are gone when monks growing peas in their gardens can make significant discoveries.  That's what I mean by "peak science."  It's taking more and more investment for less and less return.  It's not sustainable.

    As Tainter put it, an increase in spending on R&D of 4.2% yields an improvement of only 2%. At that rate, even if every one of us becomes a scientist or engineer, we'll be losing ground.

    When a company sets itself up to spend a million dollars and invent a widget Foo.  The total societal ROI is one Foo for $1M.  But what if, in a competitive market economy, 5 other companies set up to race for Foo, each spending $1M?  Someone reaches the goal, and patents Foo.  Their company ROI is still low, but society's ROI has dropped to one Foo for $6M.

    People (like the good Dr. above) who total US industrial R&D costs are totalling the costs of such battles.  The total of course does not represent the basic cost for the research.  It could still have been done for less, by one company.  The advantage of the race is that it presses the pace of course, and also that some other side-benefits might also be encountered sooner.

    And this does happen in the real world.  The "teams" racing for the human genome were one example.  In a more trivial field, how many companies design portable mp3 players?

    It's a great advantage of our system that we can do "lossy" research like this.  We have the resources to over-fund some areas, and gain from the resulting "races."  We are also fortunate that when the market does not provide an incentive, private foundations or governments may provide "X-prizes" to spur along such competitive effort.

    If you ask me a tech race is better than a production subsidy, by far.  Better to put up a $1B prize for a method to produce ethanol at some favorable EROEI/ROI than to drop much more than that to inefficient producers.

    You say physics and I answer molecular biology, or windsurfing, or kite surfing.

    Point cases aren't going to prove the general.  As bad as I think patents are as a general measure, they at least span many disciplines (including the trivial recreational ones that increasingly attract our attention ... there's a patent on the Super Soaker, right?)

    I agree that there will be further advances in the biological sciences. Perhaps those advances will solve peak oil and global warming (new strains of oil producing plants, C02 consuming bacteria???), but I'm not optimistic. I'm even less optimistic about breakthroughs in the physical sciences (practical fusion energy, free energy, etc.) that will give us a new source of clean, cheap, unlimited energy.
    I think that the historical context of this graph cannot be ignored when taking the whole concept of 'peak science' or 'peak ingenuity' into account.

    Look at the years. The huge jump is in 1944-1945, just at the end of World War II. That's when all of the companies who had developed technologies used in the war effort were able to patent their creations as they were declassified from solely military use. The big leap and decline directly following that might be related to the development of commercial applications for military technology. (Hey! This microwave radar thing makes my lunch get hot! Wild!)

    If you throw a rat into a tub of water, he will struggle and flail and do anything he can think of to get out of it. Humans are not that different -- you throw us into a situation where we know we are doomed, where we cannot deny it, when people are dropping bombs on our heads or our kids can't get food because the long haul trucks have stopped running...then we struggle. We flail. And we create, because that's what monkeys do. Grab sticks and start seeing what can be done.

    Of course, it helps to have a unified front or target to go after. The US in particular hasn't seen anything as unifying as WWII since that happened. Or possibly even before; it was a rather singularly clear sort of conflict.

    Unfortunately, as long as there is profit to be made on stringing along the oil dependent voters in the US, Big Energy is going to do their damndest to confuse the issue and make a unified effort to fix the problems we've gotten ourselves into all the more difficult. Which is why we, as the aware, have to do our damndest to get the signal through all of the noise that the Big Energy types are putting out. I honestly do think that we can win this fight, or at least go down with an effort to be proud of, if we can pull ourselves together long enough to raise our fists.

    Just my opinion. I must be feeling feisty today.

    Great post!

    Even cornucopian Marshall Brain (he does the "how it works" books) has lamented the lack of the "next big thing" that's kept the US economy growing. He says that through history, there have been huge advanced in technology that kept things going, the automobile in the teens and 20s, the new tech of WWII in the 40s, computers in the 60s and 70s and even 80s. He notes that "nanotech" and robotics have not become the Next Big Thing. Although the Internet certainly ranks up there with the car or radio as a society-changing technology.

    Of course, being a cornucopian, his viewpoint is our society simply runs on new ideas. Somehow, God or someone rewards humans with endless energy as long as we keep on coming up with new ideas. I should note that this is essentially the bedrock American belief about this matter. Little American scientists and engineers etc., as they're growing up, are indoctrinated with the idea that we live better now than people did in Europe in the 1600s because of our more liberal and enlightened ideas. The whole (excellent) series Cosmos by Carl Sagan is an extremely eloquent, well-done, and entertaining look at history from this viewpoint.

    All depends on what one means by "nanotech."  If you mean Drexlerian assemblers, then no, we're not even close.  But if you mean kick-ass litium ion batteries that will allow for a 200-mile/charge sedan that can be fully recharged in 6 minutes (as described in a Congressional hearing this week; see http://www.altairnano.com), or improved oil recovery, or vastly cheaper carbon fiber, then nanotech is zommin' right along.

    I've been saying for a long time over on my site that the two technological areas that will have a huge impact on our energy situation are nanotech (as above) and genetic engineering (cheaper, more efficient biofuels processing).  These are extremely high multiplier areas, where even a single, seemingly minor breakthrough can be scaled up to broad application and have a huge impact on world energy markets.

    They're not the "holy cow!" level of advancement like General Relativity or DNA, obviously, but I wouldn't trade them for anything right about now.

    Here's an article about a new nanotechnology that is said to be "revolutionary" and "disruptive" in terms of increasing oil production:

    http://www.uq.edu.au/news/?article=9843

    World first technology to revolutionise oil production

    Nanotechnology to help extract more petrol from oil fields has been developed by researchers from The University of Queensland's Australian Institute for Bioengineering and Nanotechnology (AIBN).

    With oil companies forced to leave behind as much as two barrels for every barrel of oil they produce, this revolutionary technology could help reduce the cost of supplying petrol to the market.

    Well, when you read the article it's kind of hard to see what they're so excited about. It's some kind of molecule that gives you greater control over emulsions, like mixtures of oil and water. I guess it is supposed to make water injection work better, but it's not clear how.

    Even if this is a case of a somewhat over-eager press release, it's clear that researchers are looking at energy problems in a new way. And with nanotech and biotech just coming out of the labs and into serious application, chances are we will in fact see significant enhancements in energy production. Whether they will really be revolutionary and disruptive remains to be seen, but the potential is certainly there.

    I wish I had a nickel for every press release in which some scientist or research group trumpets their mediocre work as a "breakthrough". Their desire is to maintain their funding and so they have a vested interest in exaggerating the importance of their work. From reading the article, I would say that this is an extreme example of this activity. Turn oil and water into an emulsion is an example of "revolutionary" and "disruptive" technology? Give me a break.
    No offense intended, but I wish to hell I knew what people meant when they talk about "the techno-cornucopian position that we will be able to innovate our way out of the Peak Oil box."

    Is this the idea that technology will deliver us painlessly through the transition to a post-fossil fueled world?  Is it the belief that technology will just barely be able to keep modern industrialized civilization from crashing like the Hindenburg?  Or is it somewhere in between?

    My personal view is in the gray area between those extremes.  Technology will clearly play a huge role in our energy future, and we won't see a collapse of modern civilization or even the end of the suburbs, but we're still in for a lot of human and economic pain for a couple of decades, at least.

    What does that make me?  A techno-opti-pessimist?

    Dear techno-opti-pessimist:
      Just someone with a reasonable view. Some folks gleefully predict the collapse of western civilisation because they are chicken to look at their own mortality. The psychological term is projection. Some people whistle in the dark because they do not wish to examine their own behavior. And, some just sit at their computer keyboards and masturbate a lot.
      But, in these word about Peak Oil sometimes a little wisdom and humor arises from the collective unconciousness of the Human Race. But, the truth is I'm 54 and will probably be dead in 30 years, and most everyone posting will be dead in 50 or 60 years.Continuing along about the same is the most probable course with lots of improvements and lots of shocks.
     
    My definition of a techno-cornucopian is something along the lines of a guy I argue with on another board:  he firmly believes that electricity will seamlessly replace gasoline without a day's shortage in between, and it will all be generated by fusion reactors.  In his mind all we have to do is turn the free market loose on science, and happy days are here again.
    a guy I argue with on another board

    A guy like that needs to be reminded that:

    1. He is the free market
    2. He is the technology
    3. Necessity is now

    Let "him" therefore bring on to us all these fusion reaction marvels and seamless electrical salvations that he promises. We have complete faith in him. But even our most glorious leader Ronald Raygun said, "Trust, but verify". Now is the time for verification. Bring it on.
    But even our most glorious leader Ronald Raygun said, "Trust, but verify".

    Strange I thought Lenin said that first and it was used by Dzerdjinski afterwards. Makes me fall into the temptation of looking for similarities between those guys...

    I used to tell those guys that the market will give you lots of innovations, but there is no reason you can call them in advance.  There is no guarantee that you will get the specific dreams you desire.

    Maybe that relates to some of the up-thread comments.  Innovation does not equal dream fulfillment.  It just means adding to the technological base overall.

    The loss of optomism is because the free market has chosen to invest in the tried and true more than innovation. The free market open the floodgates of cheap foreign goods which resulted in lower real wages over the last 30 years. The free market has made the cost of housing a much larger percentage of those shrinking wages for half the population. The benefits of innovation are going to a smaller percentage of the population than 50 years ago. The free market has created a tolerance for underclass in America and has written off the continent of Africa as unneccesary to the world economy.  While corporate profits are at a record level we have a country that cannot afford healthcare for all its citizens and a decent education for all its children. Every social good has been sacrificed on the altar of the free market and they wonder what happened to optomism in America.
    the free market has chosen to invest in the tried and true more than innovation.

    First off, the "market" does not have a brain and therfore it does not choose to go one way or the other. Each businessman looks to optimize his return on dollars invested ($RO$I). If you had a tried-and-true way of making money versus a very risky possibility of making money, which way would you go?

    Most innvoavtions are a result of government subsidy. Industry rushes in at the end, after it has been proven (tried-and-truthified) that a given innovation will make money.

    If climate change is not our doom, perhaps our greatest asset right now is wise use of historical methods from all civilizaitons studied/documented.  (low-energy, low-tech solutions).  Also, if the internet is our crowning achievement, if we can continue that (at some level) to perpetuate the resources and information that we now have, our children will be better off than the cave man from Olduvai theory.  The problem, I see, is squandering of present resources and time on foolish pursuits instead of preparing for this.  (ethanol $, roads $, insane traffic etc)  I'd like to see some of that $ being spent on interconnected bike paths throughout the nation, rail, solar, wind generation.  The rich resources that we have now and will continue to have for some time could be used to prepare the best utopian low-energy society possible. New ideas are good, but they are no guarantee, so we need to use the best information we have currently.
    The interent is the long wished for "brain ampilfier" (and will become moreseo) - the only problem being that brains don't always get up to good, useful, productive, stuff.