<DrumBeat: July 15, 2006 The Oil Drum DrumBeat: July 16, 2006>

251 comments on Peak Oil and L.A.

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Glenn on July 16, 2006 - 10:14am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Actually, the saving grace of NYC is that it has an excellent harbor and river system to connect it to the Farmlands of upstate NY and beyond. We also get our water from the Catskills pumped here by the laws of gravity! NYC is in a great geographic position for food distribution and Water.

What NYC really currently lacks is a good freight rail connection to Manhattan, but barges from Staten Island, New Jersey and Brooklyn could carry a good portion of the truck load. The Harbor Tunnel would be a great improvement over the current stream of trucks from Brooklyn to NJ.

Every area has something different. NYC has many unique issues that are completely different from LA.

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odograph on July 16, 2006 - 10:17am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
If you named harbors as a difference, you don't know LA.  We've also got a load of freight rail coming out of that port.
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jim burke on July 16, 2006 - 1:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I grew up in LA/OC, during the Vietnam War. When the Club of Rome report came out in 1972, I "got it" instantly, perhaps because my family was strict and I had no access to a car (and there were no busses).

My wife and I are presently building a homestead on (scarce)floodplain land in the southwest, and I can attest that it is extremely difficult, expensive and time consuming. Even creating a garden takes years to bring online -- and few people even try any more. We are doing it primarily because we enjoy it, hard work and all. Insulating ourselves from possible "overshoot and collapse" is secondary. Our friends and family admire what we are creating, but generally say "but I couldn't do that myself." Because few people will put in hard work if they don't have to.

When asked "how should I prepare (for P.O.)?" I don't know what to say. It's like being asked "how can I lose weight?" The answer is "change your lifestyle," which does not gain you many friends.  

I applaud RR for proseletizing. Understanding must come before action. But I have a hard time seeing right action coming out of this. Just as people would rather take a med than change their lifestyle (with high blood pressure, say), they would rather continue their lifestyle by "other means," such as war. If you look at the Middle East right now, it is difficult to imagine the US going through all this trouble except to get oil by virtually any means possible.  

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odograph on July 16, 2006 - 3:58pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
That sounds great, esp. if you enjoy it.  I mentioned my parents' 1/3 acre below, with the 12 fruit trees.  It's one of those neigborhoods where it's hard to give away avacados in season because everybody knows somebody who has a tree bearing.  The area is partly on well water still, could conserve, intall rain catchment, etc., etc., etc.

Basically for a lot of levels of decline short of crash, that's the kind of place to be.  If you really belive crash, avoid the rush ... go to the mountains of Peru or something.

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odograph on July 16, 2006 - 4:00pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
BTW, I agree on getting up to speed on gardening.  I did it growing up and did all the heavy work in my highshool and college years.  It was very rewarding (even though I didn't like avacados when I planted the trees!).  For a kid they were too "slimy"
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R W Reactionairy on July 16, 2006 - 6:59pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Sounds like your parents are still the partial beneficiaries of a true sweet spot in Southern Califorinia. At the time of Richard Henry Dana, the LA basin was not that nice a place to do more than raise a few cows and bemoan the lack of a local market. There wasn't enough water for even a small population until some water management was implemented. By the time the Owens Valley had been turned into a desert and the CA Colorado River Aquaduct had been built, Southern CA enterred an agricultural [and in many ways residential] sweet spot.

For the most part, the agricultural bonanza has been paved ... and suburbia has run amuk. It is still a great place for a lot of things, but population pressures have defined the highest use as near endless suburbia. [Oh well ... maybe in another lifetime or on mankind's next planet.]

BTW, for purposes of full disclosure, I have lived in LA County and it appears highly likely that I will do so again in the very near future [gasp / sigh / does anyone know a good pychologist in the Westwood / Santa Monica area?]

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odograph on July 16, 2006 - 7:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Good luck finding a sweet spot!
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R W Reactionairy on July 16, 2006 - 8:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Thanks. I'm afraid I'm going to need it. :-)
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jim burke on July 16, 2006 - 7:41pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I would like to recommend the book "Extreme Simplicity: homesteading in the city" by Christopher & Dolores Lynn Nyerges. They live in the LA area, and have figured out how to homestead on their suburban lot. Lots of great ideas.
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odograph on July 17, 2006 - 10:27am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Cool, I'll make a note of that.
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Glenn on July 16, 2006 - 9:14pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Oh, I know LA has a port, I was more answering your vague statement about trucking goods into NYC. That only started with the containerization of freight. NYC could easily to take on direct delivery from ships when it becomes necessary. Many of the docks are still in place and ready to go when necessary. The difference is that our harbor is connected to the Hudson River and by extension of the Erie Canal, the entire Great Lakes Basin - some of the most productive agricultural land in the world.
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odograph on July 17, 2006 - 10:42am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I think you need to look back to the spirit of my original post.  I'm talkin' about the gloom people have when they think powerdown means a frozen transportation grid.

I was just throwing a word out there for bulk transport and used "truck."  The fact (that casual pessimists) ignore is that all the bulk transport methods are far more efficient (on a per cargo-ton basis) than personal transportation.  At the same time they are of course vital.

In various degrees of powerdown the ships, trains, and trucks will keep moving ... even as people carpool, bicycle, and walk, their way to work and shopping.

... and if you want to get into which regions have agriculture ... don't pick a fight with California.

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251 comments on Peak Oil and L.A.

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