The folks running Toyota know.

Banks and credit are designed to do one thing - suck the life blood out of anyone they can get into their clutches. I was reading one of the various Frugality books about a year ago, and one story in there was about a company that started up, and no one would lend them money to get going. The co's founder was so bitter about that, that a vow was made to never borrow for anything, anything. The company took off, like a rocket without huge sandbags of debt like most co's start out with. At the time of the book's writing, the only thing that co. didn't own was the "head on the postal scale and that's only because they won't sell it to us", they did pay a small lease fee on that.

Makes me happier than ever I got a Toyota.

Greetings Fleam

Yes, but borrowing can be a good thing. A few days ago someone put together a post on this board advocating a tax on savings [as if savings were an evil thing] coupled with a position that ban on lending at any rate of interest should also be banned. Yikes!!!!

After recovering from a near stroke as my blood pressure subsided and laughter ensued, I wrote a response taking the opposite position that without savings most if not all enterprises are screwed [I think that if the technical term :-) !!!] ... it is only a matter of time until something doesn't work exactly as planned ... and oh by the way, why would any loans be made if savings were taxed and the lenders would not even be compensated for the enevitable defaults that would occur at least from time to time?? ... and if all loans were interest free, why not pary hardy NOW???

A recent article posted on one of the bearish oriented websites talked about finance in terms of three states. The first was where the existing receivables would be liquidated to pay off the debt. The second situation was where cash flows from operations in general could be reasibably expected to generate cash flows sufficient to pay off or at least service the existing debt. The last was referred to as "Ponzi" finance where the only hope of even servicing the existing debt was creation of new debt to pay the interset on the existing debt.

I would add a "party hardy" category borrowings to that list, where the only benefit was a thoroughly undisciplined consumption oriented form of instant gratification.

Not to put words in your mouth, but I suspect that what you find objectionable are at leat in large measure the elements of "Ponzi" and "part hardy" financing. True???