146 comments on IEA Supply Creeping Up
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GAIA Host Collective
Americans show no signs of curtailing their appetite for gasoline. What many predicted was World War III has already faded to the point where everybody except Anderson Cooper(CNN) and Fox News have packed their bags and left the comfort of Beirut and Northern Israel.
The Levant
What happened guys? Oil is trading kind of low, given the circumstances. Everybody adjusting to a probable increase in supplies?
I wanna know. What happened to Bird Flu? What happened to Iran's nuclear program? What happened to Iraq? What happened to the Big-Dig? Is hot weather and reality-shows the answer to all our problems concerning what we should pay attention to?
They decided to have World War III, but no-one showed up? Why does that sound familiar?
Meanwhile, I've been reading about Rousseau, Catherine, and the Revolution in Iran.
We know we've hit peak when: our 13-month average drops by an average of 2% or more per month for twelve consecutive months.
I like that one, I'm already using that. Awaiting your counterproposal.
I don't think it will be easy to set criteria in advance. Eg, we might have ME oil shocks coming up before too long -- I'm not sure how long the Arab countries are going to stand for our resupplying Israel with the bombs used to maim the children that keep showing up on Arab TV every night -- and how will we distinguish the shock from the underlying trend? Or a housing crash led recession next year - we'll have to look at prices in an attempt to guesstimate how much of the supply change is due to falling demand, and how much to supply constraints.
I totally and completely take your caveats as legitimate. I'm proposing my measure in lieu of other factors, which I am confident enough to say won't be that important.
However, I am revising proposal. Point taken.
But give me some guidance. Should I go to 1.75 or to 2.25?
As a community, we are going to need to take the lead here. I propose this as our offensive strategy.
Lord Browne on Fox tonight (on Cavuto's show). Catch that? Seen BP ads lately? Did you catch subtleties in later parts of interview. HE DOESN'T CARE. And he knows the truth. He speaks the truth. He just doesn't care. It's so obvious. What am I missing? Oil CEO often asks this question, rarely getting an answer - WTF am I missing!
We need to take the offensive.
The definition is two consecutive years of 3% declines in production. In retrospect that may have been two strict - we could see something that historians would eventually recognize as a peak without seeing these kinds of declines until much later. Or it could be too weak - we could have a severe two-year recession/depression and have such declines, before bouncing back to higher production than ever. It's tough to come up with a clear definition. Like the fall of the roman empire, it's something that can really only be declared in hindsight.
See the claim at http://www.ideosphere.com/fx-bin/Claim?claim=pkyr20 . Trading prices predict a peak (as defined above) in 2010. (That is, 2011 production will be 3% less than 2010, and 2012 will be 3% less than 2011.)
(http://www.newsfutures.com/pdf/Does_money_matter.pdf provides evidence that play-money prediction markets can be as accurate as real-money ones.)
But now every nation is producing flat out, except perhaps for Nigeria and a few barrels in Iraq. But the point is a drop in production right now would be caused almost entirely by depletion, not by political reasons.
That is the difference Freddy.
Halfin, please take note of the following graph:
This is the month by month oil production for the lower 48 US from 1969 to 1973 (2 years pre-peak to 2 years post-peak). Note that it is very noisy. Note that it is very hard to distinguish the peak in there.
Now, here is another view for you to consider of the same 5 years. This makes it even more obvious how hard it is to spot peak on a month-by-month basis, which is why I call BS on Freddy Hutter's crowing about any single month's change. Actually seeing peak will only be possible by looking backwards. Any crowing now, either way, is just a guess.
Note that the YELLOW data set in the second graph is the peak YEAR but that the prior year actually had months above any of the peak year months.
Here's the CSV data for those five years using month-by-month production (in thousands of barrels) in case anyone wants to copy and paste just those 5 years. This data came from the EIA.
Year,Jan,Feb,Mar,Apr,May,Jun,Jul,Aug,Sep,Oct,Nov,Dec
1969,275528,249984,280705,277140,290036,288935,288145,281077,278850,285603,280380,295368
1970,293818,267960,294748,287730,295213,280770,285274,296360,295590,310403,301320,308264
1971,299305,272412,302808,293070,298995,288120,293121,291741,274050,284022,274170,282100
1972,282534,270744,293322,285390,298034,285660,294376,293973,285240,293930,282780,289385
1973,284454,263066,287430,278757,287134,276418,285731,284225,271959,285940,274829,280960
That is not to say that we are not in for more price shocks. I am almost convinced that the fear component is gone. But it has not been replaced by what i have called the depletion realization component. It's good ol'e supply and demand. A reflection of recently unprecedented 4.9% global real growth.
Note that the recent crude + condensate declines and the total liquids very slow growth corresponded to record high nominal oil prices.
This higher price = less oil pattern is precisely the same pattern that we saw in the Lower 48, at the same stage of depletion that the world is at now, based on the HL method.
The danger in all this is that others can accuse PO'ers of chicken littleism. It just gives them more reason to ignore the problem and do nothing since there are those who've been saying PO is now forever. There are even websites all over the net that still haven't bothered to update and are still reporting 2000 or 2003 as the all time peak!
Of course, the time to act is NOW regardless of when the actual peak occurs.
Well, if I see a bit farther than the next man, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants. Or something like that. :-)
In all seriousness, let me reiterate my position. I do believe we will continue to creep production up for just a few more years. I think we have a pretty good shot at 90 million barrels a day by 2010. But I believe it is highly probable that we will peak within 10 years, meaning that we need to be taking very quick action on this issue. We need a sense of urgency, and I am afraid that if production is creeping higher, people won't be nearly as concerned. What we have at the moment is what I call "Peak Lite", which is increasing production that still can't keep up with demand. This has many characteristics of a true production peak, and will continue to result in very volatile energy prices.
Cheers,
RR
In the big picture I could give a rats ass whether it is this year or 4 yrs from now. Being prepared sooner is by far better than later. Telling people it will be OK is not getting us to where we need to go.
It will be your kids, relatives, freinds, what not, that are going to look you in the eye and say "you knew this could happen and with all your education had the forsight to sit around and argue over a couple of years on the time line". Come on man, get with the program.
So far westexas's preparation suggestions are the best. They look 1) reasonable 2)logical 3) within the zone of personal influence. We should prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
(ass chewing over with)
You sound a bit delusional to me, so let me spell out my position. I am no Peak Oil denier. It is coming. We must try to prepare ASAP. But it is pretty difficult to see out for more than 2-3 years. That's why there is so much disagreement over the timing of the peak.
Why does it matter, you ask? Because the more often we say "The sky is falling", only to later acknowledge "OK, not yet, but the sky WILL fall", the more credibility we lose. Look at Deffeyes. People point to him and all of his failed predictions, and then think Peak Oilers are wackos. We need fewer wackos, and more rational heads. The rational heads need to acknowledge that saying "Peak is now", only to later admit "Oops, not yet" will chip away credibility with the public. And the public is who you have to win over.
A better dialogue with the public is: 1. Peak oil is coming, in the not too distant future. 2. The exact timing is unknown, but many (most?) experts believe that it will occur within 10 years. 3. The Hirsch report says that we need to begin preparations 20 years in advance, so we are almost certainly behind in our preparations. 4. Failure to prepare will result in incredibly volatile energy prices, and has the potential for devastating consequences to society.
Incidentally, I am not suggesting that Stuart has been guilty of saying "Peak is now." I think he has added the proper caveats, and said "maybe" now. But a lot of people here do emphatically say "Peak is now." You have to consider loss of credibility - particularly with public perception - when you do this.
Cheers,
RR
I have no regrets about that statement at this time :-)
For instance, if the housing bubble (which Robert Schiller and The Economist both say is the largest financial bubble in human history) bursts, popping the larger debt bubbles, it is quite possible for demand to shrink by enough to cause an retroactive "peak" while dropping oil prices back to levels where it is uneconomic to pursue alternatives (like tar sands). A prolonged, deep recession could easily mean cheap oil prices and reduced production until the eventual recovery meets up with the downside of Hubbert's curve.
Conversely, political troubles in the middle east could send production plummetting, in which case "peak" would be reached immediately. Such an energy crisis would probably pop the bubbles and produce the results mentioned above.
In either of these cases, which are very possible (check out Prudent Bear.com), then our hair pulling and bickering will seem rather irrelevant.
I think your right that some other economic or social factor will come into play to disrupt the economy and lessen demand significantly. This will cause a demand drop followed by either a real or simply for demand reasons drop in supply.
But I am firmly conviced todays advanced recovery methods are not going to increase yields significanly from fields but result in massive depleation rates as you get cascading failures in the fields. Cantrell and Ghawar being the poster child for this effect.
So depletion will kick in and hard soon after the false or non geologic peak. Sort of out of the frying pan and into the fire effect.
This stair step of demand desctruion leveling of rising prices till we crash agian will probably continue for the next 10-15 years.
A minor point regarding Deffeyes. IMO, his prediction, in his second book that the world would hit the 50% of Qt mark in late 2005 (based on crude + condensate) was consistent with his first book, where he put the peak between 2004 and 2008 (if memory serves).
Between the two books, he made an observation that we probably peaked in 2000, based on the production declines in 2001 and 2002. However, this was an observation and not a prediction.
http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/07/27/oil-natural-gas_cz_mag092_0727shell.html
Shell Shocked
Christopher Helman 07.27.06, 3:00 PM ET
Excerpt:
In physical terms Shell is weak. Over the past three years it has replaced only 38% of the oil it has pumped. It is desperately searching for new pools of crude while trying to make up for their scarcity by shifting its focus toward natural gas. Gas is plentiful but hard to move--hence, in most cases, much less valuable as it comes out of the ground. Shell has suffered disarray in giant projects in Nigeria and on Russia's Sakhalin Island, and pricey delays in developing several prospects, including South Mars.
All oil companies confront the fact that petroleum is getting hard to find in politically stable parts of the globe. But Shell is in more of a crisis than the others because of a problem of its own doing: For years it exaggerated the size of its reserves. In January 2004 it confessed to the problem, eventually slicing 4.5 billion barrels of oil-and-gas equivalents off proved reserves, which now stand at 11.5 billion barrels. Counting only crude oil, reserves are down from 6.6 billion barrels in January 2003 to 4.6 billion now. This is more than a bookkeeping matter. Shell's production of oil has been dwindling at a rate of 7% a year.
Estimating reserves is as much art--or politics--as science. Shell has been in Nigeria for 50 years, and there's a lot of oil there. But how much can it get its hands on? Some of its Nigerian fields had leases set to expire before the company could possibly recover the oil it claimed as proved reserves. And relations with the host government are not good. The company's enemies in that country accuse it of destroying the environment, bribing officials, arming security forces and working behind the scenes to silence anti-Shell protesters. The company says it is a responsible corporate citizen and respects human rights.
Question: why is so much weight given to CW reserve estimates, when the HL method--at least for large producing regions--has been proven to be so much more accurate?
The Lower 48, North Sea and Russia all fit the HL model.
Mexico, Saudi Arabia and the world (crude + condensate) are now showing production declines, consistent with the HL model.
Following is an excerpt from an Amazon.com review of "Hubbert's Peak," published in 2001. Note that his updated work, in his second book, put 50% of Qt mark right in the middle of his original range of 2004-2008.
From Amazon:
"In Hubbert's Peak, Deffeyes writes with good humor about the oil business, but he delivers a sobering message: the 100-year petroleum era is nearly over. Global oil production will peak sometime between 2004 and 2008, and the world's production of crude oil "will fall, never to rise again." If Deffeyes is right--and if nothing is done to reduce the increasing global thirst for oil--energy prices will soar and economies will be plunged into recession as they desperately search for alternatives."
all the best.
We missed the 1998 Peak and six since...
Just as there has never been a hotter global year than 1998, it's always next year; and the public and media is tuning out...
Even if oil does not peak for quite a while, there are signs that oil production growth cannot keep pace with demand growth. That means higher oil prices going forward. Or maybe your quibble is that by being alarmist the idea of peak oil becomes discredited. I guess I can agree about that one. But people should definitely be made aware that a problem exists, and probably will exist even in the most optimistic scenarios, simply due to demand growth from China, etc.
The conventional wisdom when he published was that Saudi Arabia has unlimited oil, and the party can go on indefinitely. That illusion is rapidly dissipating, and, as we see from S.A. production figures, it increasingly looks like S.A. could well be in decline.
If Saudi Arabia is in decline, then global decline is not far behind.
Given that this is certainly the most important event in modern history, it is utterly foolhardy not to call the alarm. And that alarm has already borne fruit, as we see from China's frantic purchases of all the oil reserves it can lay it's hands on.
In fact, one could point to this growing realization for the rapid unravelling of the global economy and the equally rapid rise in mercantilism, led by Bush and his Iraqi misadventure.
Moreover, Stuart's chart is "believed to be all liquids" which apparently includes "renewable" bio-fuels, which is not even petroleum. That tends to skew the numbers more optimistically. So it seems to me that any discussion of Peak Oil based on published data is virtually impossible to have in anything like a Hubbertian sense.
There have been geopolitical upsets in the past (Iranian Revolution, Iran/Iraq War, Gulf War 1) which kept a significant amount of oil off the market. During these situations Saudi Arabia, as swing-producer, was able to flood the market rather quickly and return the situation to normal - although this did not mean that there weren't price spikes during the duration of those crises. This time though no one is in a position to act as swing producer, and that is the difference, which is why the "stubbornly" high prices today are not the result of geopolitical problems, but rather because of the economics of oil at or near the peak.
Since then Aramco's Alqahtani has announced that they have brought this rate forward to 2010 and a new target of 11-mbd by 2008.
Nigeria: production is currently reduced by 500kpd from prior levels and could easily be another 1 - 2 mbpd beyond what the prior high water mark was if there were no hositilities to hold back development.
I was being conservative in saying that from a geological perspective production in Iraq and Nigeria could be 2 - 4 mbpd higher.
Oily "ceo" seems to know where the price of Oil "SHOULD" be under the "Given Circumstances" ... and apparently the oil price is Not where Oily THINKS it should be so that proves ... hmm, what does that prove Oily ??
"What many predicted was World War III has already faded to the point where everybody except Anderson Cooper(CNN) and Fox News have packed their bags "
Oily uses Television coverage to determine the intensity and importance of the war in Lebanon...
"What happened to Iran's nuclear program? What happened to Iraq?"
Apparently Oily "ceo" has not seen coverage of these issues on TV lately and has not picked up a newspaper in some time. Guess what Oily, just because CNN hasn't told you more about them lately doesn't mean either problem has gone away.
"Is hot weather and reality-shows the answer to all our problems"
Reading your post, it does look like TV is YOUR answer.
Be patient and Stay Tuned Oily "ceo" - CNN will eventually get around to answering your questions about Iran and Iraq and WWIII, etc.