457 comments on DrumBeat: August 16, 2006
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457 comments on DrumBeat: August 16, 2006
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GAIA Host Collective
I was pondering the fact that we normally discuss gasoline prices more than diesel prices on this forum.
Maybe we should spend more time periodically watching diesel prices as it may be a better leading indicator of a possible supply-demand crunch in certain geographies. The recent shutdown of half of Prudhoe Bay really affects the West Coast of the US as this geographic area is severely pipeline-constrained from receiving crude overland from the GoM. From this Platts link:
----------------------------
The International Energy Agency said August 11 the shutdown of Alaska's
Prudhoe Bay output creates crude quality issues that could be a concern for
the currently constrained global refining sector.
"Crude quality issues are more of a concern than volumetric outages," the
agency said in its monthly report.
"In the case of BP's Prudhoe Bay, the crude lost is medium sour and
possible replacements from Saudi Arabia are likely to be sourer," said IEA.
"But this crude could be blended and will be processed by sophisticated West
Coast refineries with more flexibility to remove sulphur than refiners who
typically rely on Nigerian light sweet crudes.
According to the IEA, recent data indicates West Coast refiners are
importing crude from such countries as Angola, Argentina, Iraq, Oman, Saudi
Arabia and Yemen. But, it added, "the transit time from many of these
locations suggest refiners are likely to need to draw on stocks by late August
if already-on-sea cargoes cannot be diverted."
BP said August 11 it has bought more than 4.5 million barrels of crude on
the global market to help cover its Prudhoe Bay shortfall, with further oil
and products to be bought as necessary. The crude is coming from West Africa,
South America, Asia and the Middle East, said a source.
----------------------------------------------
Consider that California Gasoline only went up two cents in the past week, but Diesel just jumped $0.23 in the past week. Is this an early indication of what lies shortly ahead for the West Coast gasoline consumer, or can it be delayed till after the November elections? Is the Governator and CA oil companies hoping to delay future rampant gasoline price increases as far as possible into the upcoming election cycle? If it takes a long time for that sour crude to arrive and be processed, your average pissed-off voters won't be in any mood to study Peakoil and the West Coast's oil infrastructure!
Consider that most diesel burned in this country is used for commercial and farming purposes--these people don't joyride, but watch their fuel costs very closely. Contrast this with a lot of our gasoline use and one can clearly see that diesel demand inelasticity is much more tightly constrained than our gasoline demand inelasticity. Diesel demand also has alot less seasonal variation than gasoline too. This link on California petroleum is excellent info [pdf warning].
The other consideration is that over time it will be alot easier to improve gasoline mpg than diesel mpg. People can switch much faster to higher mpg cars, car-pooling, mass-transit, scooters/motorcycles, bicycles, etc versus a big-rig hauling our goods or a tractor trying to plow a field. In short, you can't carpool two semi-trailer loads into one trailer. This diesel equipment generally costs alot more initially so they need to get the full use and depreciation out of it before they can trade up to a more efficient replacement. The diesel problem is: how much more efficient can you make a bulldozer, diesel locomotive, or a diesel powered fishing boat? Most diesel vehicles really work, versus most gasoline vehicles cruising with hardly any load [like the one person/car commuter mode so popular in the US].
So logically, the price of diesel/gallon should increase less than the price increase of gasoline/gallon. But we need to remember that people vote, not corporations. But companies can pass off their rising costs to the end-user, and most of us are unaware that this corporate method is the most powerful vote of all.
From this Energy California Govt. webpage we can see that CA refineries turn 51.4% of a barrel of crude into gasoline, but only 15.3% into distallate/diesel. If refinery processing problems from late and heavy, sour shipments can be publicly hidden or delayed by decreasing diesel production and keeping gasoline production up-- it benefits both the IOCs and the Governator by keeping the easy-motoring, drive thru, laidback CA voter uninformed for as long as possible. Thus, it takes longer for diesel fuel costs to work their way into the price of consumer goods versus the immediate consumer outrage of high gasoline prices.
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
I am listening to RR's audio interview--He is an ALL_STAR rep for TOD--MUCHO KUDOS! I hope all the TOD experts can vastly increase their MSM penetration to offset Yergin's media pervasiveness and evasiveness.
Perhaps we need to form a TOD Speakers' Bureau and formulate a basic platform so that we can be relatively consistent in what is presented to the public.
Consider RR's comments on California's Prop. 87 and Khosla's support for it. The IOCs best chance to derail the voter approval for it is to keep gas prices as low as possible for as long as possible before November. Now consider my top posting on the price disparity between diesel and gasoline on the West Coast, in fact throughout the entire Rocky Mountain region. Notice how diesel is much higher out west? My guess is most of the IOCs are currently upset for BP's corrosion screwup in Alaska. Overall--it really is bad timing for the West Coast until a big pipeline is built to the GoM to equilibrate prices and volumes. We already know the Alaskan Governor & Revenue Office are plenty upset already.
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Perhaps someone else recalls the article or comment where this was discussed in more detail?
Thxs for responding. I don't dispute the potential energy savings of RRs and mass-transit at all--in fact, I have posted before how I hope everything AlanfromBigEasy advocates comes true, and soon! But this is mostly a political voter decision, not a true supply-demand decision. Unfortunately, RRs & mass-transit companies are outgunned by widespread Peakoil ignorance and denial, combined with the influence exerted by the Iron Triangle as explained by TODer Westexas. Only when gas prices put a solid hurt to the typical SUV owner is when they will vote in mass for RRs, and mass-transit.
The CA oil companies are having to fight Prop 87 with one hand tied behind their back due to BP's Prudhoe screwup. I really feel they are trying to give the gasoline motorist a break hoping to get them, in exchange, to vote down Prop. 87. By further refining and chemical upgrading of diesel: you can get more gasoline, but at a increased cost. If Prop. 87 wasn't on the CA ballot, the IOCs could pursue the higher goal and lower cost of optimizing the efficiency of the refineries' chemical output production mix instead of having to pursue a politically driven output production mix. In other words, since they are having to use ever heavier and sour inputs-- it would be normal to expect more diesel and less gasoline per input barrel of crude. The price disparities between diesel and gasoline should actually be reversed for optimal refinery efficiency on a chemical and cost basis.
I would argue that this is better for the West Coast in the long run too, as it would encourage gasoline conservation from higher prices, yet make diesel relatively cheaper for the farmer and trucker to provide us with food.
Please bear in mind that I am not an expert, but the API degree, sulfur content, and other crude factors chemically predetermine the optimal refinery outputs.
Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?
Nope. Not completely. In part, and in fact some long haul work is now being done by rail.
But not completely. The capitol costs of moving all the rail to the business or the businesses to the rail will make sure that does not happen.
It seems to have lulled now though, but even many executives at these co's know that the future is rail. They realize that it is simply more efficient to move distances on rail and move trucking back to strict local. The funny thing is when I approach the topic of diesel prices and question changes made to personal habits etc and many just don't see the WHOLE forest.
The change consists of additional particulate traps, catalytic converters, etc... got a few friends that work in the heavy truck sector emmissions... it's all they talk about
our current rail infrastructure can't handle the load if the vast majority of long haul trucking was moved back to being moved by freight train.
if we were to do this we would have to have a massive build up of our rail infrastructure which will gobble up any of our savings(capital and energy) we would gain by putting the freight back onto rails.
The way you put it, it sounds like you don't accept the aggregate savings of cheaper fuel needs (plus, I believe, better maintenance performance, too)
Bob Fiske
our current rail structure is a shadow of what it once was before trucking took over. to go back too having things sent mostly or all by rail would mean we would have to rebuild lines that we either tore down for recycling or let rust into uselessness and build more locomotives, rail stations, etc.
the cost of such a build up will either make the savings from ditching the fuel hog trucks dry up to next to nothing or nothing at all.
there was a reason we originally switched from rail to trucks. and that was it was cheaper in both energy and money and it was relatively faster.
That in turn inspired the Interstate Highway System and the rest is history.
Given that context, I find it astonishing that Denver has built light rail. I suppose the bad memories are fading and lots of newcomers have moved in. Still, I don't know that I'd look for any love of freight rail anytime soon. Alanfrombigeasy, are you reading, from wherever you are?
I think DART in Dallas would be a good candidate for trolley freight (single containers/ flatcar) once current expansion plans are completed.
The Green Line in Los Angeles is in the middle of a freeway, and that location has reduced rail ridership (per analysts that I believe). Would you want to wait even a few minutes amongst the noise & exhaust of a nearby freeway.
Although running an Urban Rail line down a "freeway" is the "least best" option; it could be cheap and fast and we may need to do this.
All sorts of detail issues (overhead clearances under bridges, entering & exiting freeways) make this option a site specific "maybe".
So
Alan you call it an auto sewer, but that's ONLY predicated on a belief in cars. I'm talking a pardigm shift in peoples perception of local travel. My sprawling metro area is maybe 75 miles end to end. By car it's no issue since I can get anywhere I need to in about an hour. Once you destroy that relationship of a car and a mile, you'll see more people willing to get into the sewer to get to work.