272 comments on DrumBeat: August 21, 2006
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272 comments on DrumBeat: August 21, 2006
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I think that the Left's (justified, in my opinion) hatred of Bush has literally driven a lot of them crazy.
I see it simply as Olmert didn't acheive his military objective (secure a strip of land into Lebanese terrority to prevent their missles from striking Israel) and Hezbollah did (prevent Israel from occupying their land).
Also, there are people on both the left and the right who object to America sticking their nose into other country's business, giving free money and military equipment to other countries, intervention on the internal affairs of far away nations, etc.
Another example would be the sly bipartisan support for decades of illegal immigration, an elite backed policy that is not even supported by legal immigrants, much less native born US people.
Every nation is entitled to self determination and the repulsion of invaders.
Long live Hezballah.
Death to all infidel "occupiers" of this Planet.
Long live Ebollah.
Long live the reign of our dark master.
It has everything to do with it.
The horses on the beach. I forget the terms. But basically, Connery was part of the fascist, Nazi SS, futuristic IslamoFascistJihadiDeathCult-types ...until he was set free by smokin-hot early 70's chickie-bunnies. And the flying head.
'Omega Man' is the next film you need to review. Heston in the Matheson Zombie classic.
Hell's Ebola Plague. C'mon, my man, we have screenplays to write.
The Zardoz community was largely about technology as you recall. They got past physical stuff and were into the whole mind thing. Oil would mean nothing if we could just get it out of our heads. No?
Closer to the Singularity, however.
I guess you have to be quite a bit loaded with your "good stuff" to see the analogies you are reporting.
Doesn't Kunstler say that Tex? LMAO and agree.
People here seem extremely naive to me. And maybe a little too smug and superior acting.
It sounds like most people here grossly underestimate radical islam in so many ways it's sad and not laughable at all. It's as if everyone here thinks the world consists of one homogenous culture and the idea of Religious LUNATICS is limited to Jerry Falwell et. al.
And of course I doubt very, very much anyone HERE has Yet had to face being blown up by a pretty, young women suicide bomber, or random missile, etc, etc so it is easy to sit and pretend to be Morally Superior and Judge From Afar.
Iran and Radical Islam are very serious when they preach and teach their ignorant and mostly poor and desperate Masses to Hate the Great Satan... but they truly mean The West in general. After that they kill eachother off to see who Allah liked the Bestest Afterall. Sorta like a Jerry Falwell on Steroids and Adrenaline running the USA (and no, Bush is a christian loony but not psychotic like the mullahz).
I agree with Adysseuse - I think Kunstler sees the real threat and it is most certainly a Symptom of the energy crisis. Israel is the only thing close to a real democracy in the Middle East and the most stable country there by far, so it makes sense that we do not abandon them. Would you rather count on the current batch of Arab governments as allies in such an Oil-Rich region? With the growing poliTICal power of Iran and Radical Islam?
I think Kunstler is looking at this from a very practical standpoint and the sad but true FACT is that Iran (nuclear or not) and Radical Islam is a Clear and Present Danger to most of humanity. With Peak Oil they know TimezUp - their own oil reserves are declining and they literally cannot afford to wait forever for their little Armegeddon.
The "z" thing doesn't really work. Nor the CAPS. Shakespeare already tried it. He said,"scratch that." But go ahead. Try it one more friggin' time. Maybe you know better.
But of course, your response doesn't address a single point in my post or the thread. Nope, you just post an angry critique while Posing as a wanna-be editor for "Entertainment Tonight"... (hmmm, now why doens't that surprise me).
Need a "reload"?
Nevertheless quite good stuff you have, been running for more than 8h30mn since this morning CET.
But it is dangerous for your health.
This little Lebanon war boiled up because
- an adventurist US administration, which has already done major damage to the region through its comic-book geopolitical analysis and systematically wrong-headed interventions, wanted to use Israel as a proxy to provoke Syria and Iran; and
- a new, inexperienced Israeli leadership (which, a rare occurrence, included no experienced military men), feeling validated by US backing, pursued its own (legitimate defensive) goals through an immoral and ill-advised adventure.
It just so happens that these foolhardy actors played into the hands of the Hezbollah, and that the Lebanese nation (which has few opportunities to exist, and has no vocation to hate Israel as such) united behind its "defensors", the Hezb, who are in reality its worst enemy.So, in this precise instance, wailing about how all the Arabs hate Israel / hate the US / hate "our values" is wildly inappropriate. Lebanon is a place where fashionably-dressed young women can drink alcohol in public during Ramadan, where you can see the Vagina Monologues performed in Arabic, Beirut is the cultural and intellectual centre of the Arab world in the way Baghdad used to be decades ago. Lebanon, of all places, is not your monolithic bloc of seething hatred.
Or it wasn't. The Hezbollah, darlings of the Muslim world after their "heroic" resistance against the IDF, would like it to be. And they have received a powerful boost from their objective allies, Bush and Olmert.
OK, go ahead kill me.
You never got back to me with your casualty spreadsheet.
But obviously, the Lebanese casualties blew out when they could actually dig through the ruins without getting strafed etc... I was talking about the numbers announced officially during the conflict.
With respect to ratios, maybe you're right and the Israelis aren't satisfied with 10 to 1. For example, they are now holding 25 members of the Palestinian parliament hostage, for the release of one IDF soldier.
As a special bonus, here's the best succinct military analysis of the conflict I've seen. It's from a friend who spent some time in Lebanon in a UN contingent in the 80s.
Seriously, though. I thought I had won. Of course we will discuss this more. Shame on you MUDLOGGER(and others).
That's about what happened, not the article. I'll go read that now.
but I'm not actually advancing any particular thesis, just trying to analyse events in a fair and balanced<sup>TM</sup> manner. I am not any kind of extremist, I'm well-integrated socially and politically. I engaged you, in particular because I think you are a level-headed guy in general, but appear to exhibit a not-uncommon lack of lucidity WRT the middle east.
Culturally Americans have very little context to distinguish social, cultural and religious differences from our economic and political interests.
The 9/11 Commission Report, carefully drafted with US and foreign interests in mind, identfiied Saudi Arabia as the primary source of funding for Al Queda before and for up to 2 years after the 9/11 attacks.
We are not well-served by assuming that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Al Queda are part of a monolithic movement. But they are different than the PLO, the Baathists and the earlier Pan-Arab movement in that the latter are secular.
If almost 70% of the reserves of oil were not in a tight little triangle in the Middle East we would not have deep concerns about Islam, or its radical and discontented expressions.
But imagine if we did want to comprehend both the challenge and opportunity presented by the Islam and the diversity of its expressions - both healthy and unhealthy. Our starting place necssarily would be on trying to understand an alternative view - of history, religion, culture and society. And just like there is not a single history of Christianity, modernity, Western culture - there is not a single history of Islam, Arab and non-Arab cultures and societies, and traditional, fundamentalist and modern perspectives within various non-Western cultures and societies.
There is a bias to want to see things in "black and white" but the world is colorful, alive and inherently dynamic. How we perceive one another across differences and distinctions within and across societies shapes the world in very real ways.
That is because you and he lack a comprehensive understanding of the fundamentals of Islamic terrorism.