the North Sea is the definitive proof of the HL method

This is logically flawed.  No single working example can prove a theory.  You are making an assumption.  That the HL method worked for the North Sea does not prove that the method is generally applicable.

I believe the point Westexas was trying to make is that if any field was going to provide a failing case for the HL method, it would have been the North Sea.

Since there are now several examples of oil field depletion (Texas, Yibal, North Sea, etc), perhaps it's time to formulate a set of "Hubbert's Laws" in honor of M.K. Hubbert.

Bokken

 


Its funny you say this since the Hubbert Law is exactly the same as concept as Moore's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law


Replying to my own post.

Once one can prove that Moore's law no longer holds it has no predictive power for the evolution of cpu complexity post peak. In fact what we are seeing today is a massive drop in the rate of increase in complexity of cpu's made up by multi-cores and addition of memory.

Considering that Moore's law fails post peak circuit density I argue that  HL fails for oil production rates after the peak.

You could also include Finagle's corollary to Murphy's Law into your proof:

 "Anything that can go wrong, will -- at the worst possible moment."

Bokken

 

I have it on good authority that Murphy didn't actually write Murphy's Law, it was actually another fella with the same name!
This may be true but has not yet been true in any individual field that has peaked. HL methods have accurately assessed dozens of fields and provided accurate pictures that defied "expert" forecasts on multiple occasions.

Until you provide data to prove your assertion, it is worthless. Personally, I suspect that sociological and political factors could make you right, but that's not proven anywhere yet so we're both just guessing. And rather than guess, I'd prefer to look at methods that have a proven track record, like HL analysis.


After peak the production rate of a field is very sensitive to how its been developed produced and the geology of the field itself. Technical factors come into play to determine the post peak production profile.  Almost all the offshore fields show steep declines post peak because of the way they are produced. For cpu's and Moore's law heat and static discharge have ben the major factors on the real increase in computing power the last few years.

These technical factors certainly sometimes result in higher production rates then would be predicted with a smooth curve generally in exchange for a drop in production later.

In general just looking at the graphs most fields tend to show a initial slow decrease in production rates post peak for several years say 3-10 followed by rapid drops as technical factors come into play. Look at the field production profiles for Texas and the north sea.

Here is a article on the North Sea.

http://www.energybulletin.net/17262.html

The decline rates post peak are all over the map.

I agree I'm guessing but it would sure be nice to have someone come up with a reasonable explanation why the post peak decline rates won't be steep. I can come up with lots of reasons to expect steep declines and so far not single reason to expect them not to be steep. And yes I take  political and engineering issues into consideration because they are relevant.

How can we ensure that we are not headed for serious problems ?

Treat oil as a world resource not a national or resource open the books and do independent analysis. Find out the truth then with this information work out a way to power down in a dignified manner. Transparency regardless of if the news is good or bad is the only answer.

Are we going to do this ?
Probably not.

as someone who eagerly awaited the hot new chip, each year, for 20 years ... it doesn't surprise me that moore's law would slow now.  the users and applications that need a new chip are becoming fewer and fewer.

IOW, the average age of a home or office pc is increasing.

applications that need a new chip are becoming fewer and fewer.

Not so sure!
This may be a chicken and egg problem.
Some applications which would require orders of magnitude more processing power are put on a back burner and not investigated further.
For instance I know of an on-the-fly compression/decompression algorithm which is limited to a few dozen kb/s with current chips, a 100 or 1000 speed up factor would help.
I suspect there are many, many such hidden nuggets.

Yeah, that's why Intel pushed so hard a few years ago for more entertainment uses and video applications.  Unfortuntately for them, home users have largely stuck with digital still photography, and relatively small pipes for internet.

I ran my pc as a PVR for a while ... but I think that one's better done with a lower horsepower, lower electrical power, device like a dedicated DVR with a big disk.

On the server side Google showed that you could do it with dirt-ball hardware (IIRC their term).  Now they are backfilling, not for more horsepower, but less electrical power.  Related:

The Server Market Struggles for Growth in Q2, Says IDC

Yeah, that's why Intel pushed so hard a few years ago for more entertainment uses and video applications.

Indeed, blessed are the video-games addicts (some spending 40% of their income), I thank them for the cheap chips we can all enjoy.

Even if the demand for faster chips would slow down more transistors per chip gives more compacty and cheaper systems and flash memory is very practical. And there is a tradeoff between speed and power consumption, if you have the speed you need the development can give you lower power consumption.
Heh, my phone has one of those microSDs and supports a gig of flash.  That still cracks me up.
I design ICs for a living...  Moore's Law is my best friend ;)

Bokken

PS: Until PO hits, then it'll probably be a hoe.

That's why it's called a model.