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448 comments on DrumBeat: August 31, 2006

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Darwinian on August 31, 2006 - 11:03am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Tocchigi, The Powers That Be are just as clueless as the average joe in the street. They are basically just a bunch of dumb-asses like the rest of the populace.

Why would anyone think that those elected by an unimformed populace be any smarter or more informed than those who elected him or her.

As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- H.L. Mencken

Ron Patterson

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tstreet on August 31, 2006 - 12:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
And that day is today.  Talk about prescience!!!  
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enviro attny on August 31, 2006 - 1:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
love that quote
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davidsmi on August 31, 2006 - 3:43pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
What makes you think that TPTB are those that are elected to the government?
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LevinK on August 31, 2006 - 3:49pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Precisely. I am always amazed when people honestly believe that those clowns we see on TV are the same that are calling the shots.
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Darwinian on August 31, 2006 - 10:20pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
What amazes me is all that stupid crap the conspiracy theory nitwits actually believe.
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earldaily on September 1, 2006 - 1:52am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
what?
like peak oil?
conspiracy theory nitwits? are my wits nits? or is your brain on the shits?
I enjoy your posts on oil, I don't enjoy anyones post on conspiracy theories here on tod. It's not the right place. Just keep in mind you post ( a lot) on a site that's considered by most to be on the fringe. in the eyes of most you are a conspiracy theory nitwit. I don't think you are but I do think you should pull back and try for some new perspective.
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Jack on September 1, 2006 - 2:41am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I'm with Darwinian. The recent Bloomberg article and other mainstream press coverage is more proof that peak oil is not a conspiracy theory.

The fact that posters do think it is appropriate to toss any wild paranoid plot into any thread sure does make it look like one though.

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Oil CEO on September 1, 2006 - 3:11am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Peak oil is still extremely sketchy. Obviously I am one of the real ____ of the this "movement." I'd be the first to tell you that it hardly exists.

It is so small it doesn't exist. (yes, we have ours sects)

Through August 2006 - What Are Our Accomplishments!?

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Jack on September 1, 2006 - 5:25am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
It's less sketchy than "Bush blew up the World Trade Center" or "The Council on Foriegn Relations is putting flouride in your water" (Sorry AC, I'm not sure if I got that one right).
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Oil CEO on September 1, 2006 - 6:09am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The point is - We are extremely not sketchy. No, my friend?

I think Jack and myself have settled ourselves on being extremely settled.

We duggs ourselves a pitt and we're gonna defend it. I got the  big money on that. what's the big money on that? We ain't stupid. You can fly, butcha can't eat it!

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AngryChimp on September 1, 2006 - 7:21am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"Sorry AC, I'm not sure if I got that one right"

You didn't on both accounts but that just highlights your ignorance on the subject.  Bush couldn't blow up anything.  His job is to cover-up who actually did it...

==AC

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Oil CEO on September 1, 2006 - 8:00am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Dude.I justed jumped over the fence. My only friend is in ...If it was Spec OPs... We had our nation's calling-we did not fail them -  or my boy Jack. Jack's the only one I ever stick around to see if he's still alive. Yeah, well shut the fuck up, obviously Jack win's on this. ObvioislybJack's the real fucking I don't know what you cal it. Jack's obvviously got connextions. He's the only one I care about. He's the only one that matters. Yeah well...I did that OK. Jamie's OK. Hehheh. Fuck this. I'm gonna connect with Jack.
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AngryChimp on September 1, 2006 - 8:34am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Unfortunately I can have this effect on people.  I apologize for CEO's licentious behavior...

==AC

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Jack on September 1, 2006 - 8:44am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"that just highlights your ignorance on the subject"

I know, I know. I lost my decoder ring a few months ago and I can't follow any of the good plots any more.

Please fill me in on the Council of Foriegn Relations one again. Just this once. My curiousity is killing me.

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AngryChimp on September 1, 2006 - 8:51am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"I know, I know. I lost my decoder ring a few months ago and I can't follow any of the good plots any more."

Buy a couple dozen boxes of Cracker Jacks and you'll find one inside.  I've got three of them now so I know at least three times more than you.

I'm not going to tell you about the CFR if you lost your "ring".  What's the point you couldn't decipher what I was saying anyway...

==AC

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Oil CEO on September 3, 2006 - 6:09am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I apologize for CEO's licentious behavior...

Whhat? Whaaaaa? Huh...Wha.Whaat? What are you fucking insane? Did I just hear that? Hello?

What else are you going to apologize for? Pol Pot? Boy George? You are a fucking nutcake. Don't ever try to apologize for my behavior again. I own my behavior. Not you. Control yourself.

Or as we say on TOD...Cheers.

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LevinK on September 1, 2006 - 10:44am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You are ranting at the wrong person. I am not a consipracy theorist, I just think that these guys (be it neocons, dems, reps whatever) are following the agenda of the circles that put them in those places - in general these are de facto huge corporations, represented by their lobbying groups in the Congress etc. It is de facto an institutionalised corruption on a grand scale, and in this country it is even 99% legalised.

That's what I mean that "they are not calling the shots". Bush and co, are nothing but representatives of these groups. As such they act as errand boys, but mostly as PR. As such their ability to follow an agenda of their own is very limited. It is akin to telling your employer that from now on you will do whatever you want to, instead of whatever is wanted from you and still wait for your next paycheck...

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step back on September 1, 2006 - 11:57am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Let me suggest that there are a number of possible mechanisms by which the system that we see could come into being:
  1. Conspiracy in its most severe form (a Star Chamber),
  2. Conspiracy by covert understandings (wink of an eye and nod of the head, rather than a "plan" expressly made by the all powerful leaders of a Star Chamber Council),
  3. Random behavior (as in Fooled by the Randomness),
  4. Consequential outcomes of a Hierarchical "Education" System where "elites" are taught to think under one paradigm (the Harvard / Yale paradigm), where middle managers are "educated" into thinking under a second world view (the MIT / Cal Tech view of world systems) and where the "lower working class" is managed by being brain washed into seeing the world in yet a third way (the community college --be a dental technician, trust your superiors paradigm).

Obviously, I'm going to vote for number 4 because I put so much energy into wording it.

Is there not a possibility, --a 1% possibility?-- that GW Bush and Dick Cheney (and their neocon inner circle) actually are formulating US policy all by themselves because of the way they were "grewed up" by their parents? Is it not remotely possible that GW Bush truly beleives he is a superior being cause his "Daddy" taught him that special people don't go to Vietnam but instead "serve" by boozing it up in the National Guard? That the lesser persons are the ones that make "the ultimate sacrifice"? And if you were a young GW Bush, why would that world view not be an appealing one? Hell, it sure beats the alternatives.

Is it not remotely possible that the minions of the elite; your Yergins and your Cato Institute pundits for example, actually believe the nonsense they spout out because they were "educated" to think that way? They are not knowingly evil? They actually believe in that which they blather out?

Is not remotely possible that Peak Oil believers actually believe the nonsense they spout out because they were "educated" in physics, chemistry and scientific thought patterns? Or is it that Peak Oilers are part of a vast looney conspiracy?

Well how about it? Do you feel YOU are part of some vast conspiracy? Do you?

And if not, why should "they"?

Just think about it.
No need to rush to judgment.

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LevinK on September 1, 2006 - 1:35pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Well I don't think your argument contradicts mine, it just complements it. Bush, Cheney and their circles are not some random guys, hired to do the job - they were chosen because they come from the same ideological den as those that supported them. In this respect they are part of TPTB, what I am just arguing is that their real power is much less than what is percieved and for that matter what it should be. You know for example that the plans to invade Iraq are dating long before not only 9/11 but before GWB even came to power. How does this speak for our democracy?

Actually the propagated idea that those frontmen and women are the de facto the people in charge is a key part of the brainwashing machine and that's why I am resisting it so much. If things go really bad, Bush and his crew will be changed with some others, the public will finally get its scapegoat, while in the end nothing fundamentally will be changed.

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AngryChimp on September 1, 2006 - 7:17am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
LOL.  Ron is a true believer.  He actually believes we live in a "Democracy" and those empty suits on the tele screen have "power".  He is told old to change his mind.  His brain is now "hard wired" to be ignorant...

==AC

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AngryChimp on September 1, 2006 - 9:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"The whole drift of our law is toward the absolute prohibition of all ideas that diverge in the slightest form from the accepted platitudes, and behind that drift of law there is a far more potent force of growing custom, and under that custom there is a natural philosophy which erects conformity into the noblest of virtues and the free functioning of personality into a capital crime against society."
~ H. L. Mencken (1880-1956) American Journalist, Editor, Essayist, Linguist, Lexicographer, and Critic Source: quoted in New York Times Magazine, 9 August 1964
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Kevembuangga on September 2, 2006 - 2:05am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Yes, yes, I am a fan of Mencken too but you are still too much paranoid.

It does NOT take a conspiracy to create all the nasty deeds we can witness or strongly suspect.
Just bunchs of individuals and groups with base motivations which act in loose tacit coordination while still competing between themselves can give the illusion of a SINGLE goal seeking "evil entity".
This is our "monkey brain" penchant for identifying agency behind seemingly purposeful events.
It is much easier to think about a single anthropomorphic "will" than to ponder the effects of interacting trends in a more intricate model but this introduce severe PARANOID distortions in the outcomes.

Actually this "distributed evil" is MUCH WORSE than a conspiracy because it cannot be rooted out.

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step back on September 2, 2006 - 4:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Just bunchs of individuals and groups with base motivations which act in loose tacit coordination while still competing between themselves can give the illusion of a SINGLE goal seeking "evil entity".


Maybe there is a little more to it than "just a bunch of individuals".
Suppose you were a Professor of Economics at Yale. (Well maybe not this guy on the right because at least he admits that GW may be responsible for larger hurricanes although he leans against that notion. Click on his picture to read his pdf paper.)

And you are getting a pretty nice paycheck because after all it is "Yale" and most of the people who go to your school can afford to go there without worrying about the "price" of admission.

So what are you going to preach to them? You're going to preach what you think they want to hear (or more to the point what their Mumsy & Old Man want them to hear). They are happy with the Darwinian, Survival of the Economic Superiors Theory that you dish out to them and you are happy with the paycheck and perks. A very cozy relation. Year after year.

Then there are the few wanna-be-rich and talented Mr. Ripley's in your class. They are smart. They will never be super rich. Wrong blood you know. But they will grow up to be the Yergins and Cato Institute wizards of society. They will be the minions to the elites. They will soak up what you preach and dish it back to the elites later on in order to re-validate that which they learned at alma matta. Again, that is going to be a very cozy relation for all involved.

Next, you step down the rungs of society and look at some slob of an engineering professor at MIT. Who are his students and what is he going to teach them --assuming he wants tenure and his cozy niche in society?

So you see that there is a built-in compact in our eductional "institutions". It perpetuates the system. It's not "just" a bunch of accidentally random individuals. It's got history. It's got roots. It is a living and self-perpetuating bio system.

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448 comments on DrumBeat: August 31, 2006

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