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429 comments on DrumBeat: September 11, 2006

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liferaft on September 11, 2006 - 7:19pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Agree with your points regarding the left and the dyslogia evident in Smith's camp.  However, conservatives like Kevin Phillips are few and far between, and I stand by my observation, particularly in regards to right-wing politicians.

I'm not so sure polarization is a bad thing.  A real problem in this country are the vast numbers of people in the "middle" who don't vote or are too "busy" to properly inform themselves, as required for a functioning democracy.  By their acquiescence they share responsibility for the many horrors being perpetrated by the leadership of this country.

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Seadragon on September 11, 2006 - 10:00pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You got that right...the public is responsible. One of Kunstler's points is that the character of the American populace is inadequate to confront the converging catatastrophies that we now face; it tends to get lost in some of the peripheral remarks he makes, but it's dead-on.
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odograph on September 11, 2006 - 10:14pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
One of his conjectures maybe, but we won't know until reality of peak oil stares the nation in the face.

Remember the old quote that appears sometimes at the top of this page?  The public has two modes, complacency and panic.

I think to many people extrapolate the complacency far into the downcurve of oil depletion.  The really interesting time cmoes after the wake-up call.

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kjmclark on September 12, 2006 - 1:36pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"I think to many people extrapolate the complacency far into the downcurve of oil depletion.  The really interesting time cmoes after the wake-up call."

Where I am, jobs are disappearing, house prices are falling, and people are on the verge of panic.  Every time the wind blows from the east, you can smell that fear sweat that Don wrote about.

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step back on September 12, 2006 - 1:49pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
What part of the country (world?) are you in? What industry (ies?) are being hardest hit?

One would assume construction and home refinance.

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kjmclark on September 12, 2006 - 3:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
SE Michigan, US.  Industries having problems include automobile manufacturing, automobile sales, construction, finance, tourism, services.  There's not much doing well at the moment, it seems.  
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step back on September 12, 2006 - 5:15pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I'm in Northern California and we are far from recovered from the 2001 dot.com bust. I'm not sure if the computer industry will ever make a comeback here. Hardware jobs are outsourcing to China. Software jobs are outsourcing to India. (Intel for example just announced a layoff of over 10,000 workers to take place over the coming 2007 fiscal cycle.)

I suspect that some parts of the country are seeing a good and "strong" economy, like in post-Katrina land where construction workers are probably swamped with repair jobs. Also in the military-industrial complex, the Iraq war is just one that keeps giving and giving. (Gee, I wonder who is going to be paying and paying for that one? Let the good times roll.)

The elephant in the living room has to be new homes and mortgage financing. As long as new home sales kept going up and up; meaning continued sales of appliances: refrigerators, washers, garage door openers, etc. and continued good times for construction crews and strong numbers for lumber, wall boards, etc.; then a lot of people were still content. I guess the game plan was to keep it going until right after Novemeber 2006 (US elections). But the system is already showing signs of strain and cracks in the dam.

I dread what comes next. (Le Deluge as Louis the XIV might say. Or who gives a flying f*** as Bush II might say, it ain't on my watch.)

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southpaw on September 11, 2006 - 11:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"conservatives like Kevin Phillips are few and far between"

That is difficult to ascertain given that rational and fair-minded conservatives are persona-non-grata in the RNC.  The RNC is dominated by neoconservatives and that is a whole different animal than a true conservative.  I spoke at length with many conservatives who are appalled at the reckless behavior of the ruling Republicans who inflate the deficit leaving a mess for future generations and also those in their party who care nothing for the environment.  These same conservatives are also very angry at the loss of civil liberties stemming from the Patriot Act.  They see the hypocrisy of their party but are unable to effect change since the ruling elite only listen to the neocon monied interests.

As a former centrist Dem I had a similar frustration at the lip service the Dem elite have given about responsible govt and fighting for the little guy, yet their actions are always conflicted and ineffectual.

My frustration led me to explore the nature of our political system in depth.  I concluded what many others have - that the ruling elite of both parties present a facade of choice when in reality they are controlled by the same financial elite cabal.  I had come to this conclusion before I understood peak oil and also before I read books like Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon and these latter elements just became the icing on the cake.

Polarization is not so great when it distracts the already zombie-like electorate from getting a handle on the really important issues and the MSM is all too happy the fan polarization flames.  

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liferaft on September 12, 2006 - 12:34am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
In my neck of the woods - Sacramento CA - traditional conservatives are invisible.  They don't speak out or hold public forums or generate any signficant media coverage.  The progressive community on the other hand is quite vocal and visibile regarding civil liberties, the debt, the environment, the war, etc.

I sympathize with your view on the two parties.  Since WWII both parties have been focused on a single goal: maintaining the disparity of wealth and power "enjoyed" by Americans at the expense of the rest of the world.

IMO Democrats are worse than Republicans because Dems pretend to be "for" the working guy and the middle class. At least Republicans are up front about protecting their power and wealth.

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Nagorak on September 12, 2006 - 4:48am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I don't really agree with your assessment.  I don't think Republicans are up front about protecting power and wealth at all.  Republicans put up a front in the form of trying to enforce narrow religious values (outlawing abortion, attacking gays, the whole Schiavo fiasco, etc), and look out for the "small businessman".  They're rarely upfront about their real agenda which is helping out the ultra wealthy and extremely large business at the expense of everyone else.  

Republicans wouldn't have a chance of getting elected if they said what they really stood for.  They need the religious zealots and moderately well-to-do middle class, as well as small business voters.  But the reality is they do nothing for those groups-- nothing positive anyway-- besides offer lip service and hand-me-down scraps.  

In my opinion Republicans are much more crass when it comes to their real agenda compared to their claimed agenda.  

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step back on September 12, 2006 - 5:38am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Republicans ... need the religious zealots and moderately well-to-do middle class, as well as small business voters.  But the reality is they do nothing for those groups-- nothing positive anyway-- besides offer lip service and hand-me-down scraps.

Republicans don't need any of these splinter groups per se. The real strength of Republicans comes from the right wing Think Tanks.

It is the Think Tanks who tell Republican strategists (i.e. Karl Rove) what mental manipulations will work this week and what won't (i.e. Connect with the lizard brains of those who are easily terrorized by an unknown "those who hate our freedoms"). Note last week's word of the week: Islamo-facists.


Thought Control is Not China's Alone
America has thought control tanks as well --Invisible Hand kind

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southpaw on September 12, 2006 - 11:34am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
"Republicans put up a front in the form of trying to enforce narrow religious values"

Absolutely!  As you must know, the Neocons are Straussian adherents who believe it is necessary to use religion to control the masses.  As followers of Leo Strauss, the neocons are fascists in the Mussolini tradition of merging state and corporate power.  Strauss' philosophy is described in the link below:

http://www.alternet.org/story/15935/

However, don't think the emergence of such fascism and corruption began just with the current administration, they just took it to new extremes.  Catherine Austin Fitts, former Asst Sec of Housing, wrote a phenomenal expose on the connection of corrupt business practices and the highest levels of govt.  It's a long article, but well worth reading.

http://www.dunwalke.com/introduction.htm

The origins of corruption of our govt by the financial elite can be traced back to the creation of the Federal Reserve.  I read numerous books on the topic, but as a primer you can check out a link a TOD blogger provided in today's Drumbeat.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

"They're rarely upfront about their real agenda which is helping out the ultra wealthy and extremely large business at the expense of everyone else."

One would have to be extremely obtuse not see what their true agenda is.  I think rank and file Americans can see through the veneer, but too many are caught up in the confusing media frenzy that directs them to focus on more emotive issues and hence they are reluctant to make class warfare their top issue.

My advice is to keep researching, keep digging, follow the breadcrumbs and you will discover there is much more to our 2-party system than meets the eye.

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Samsara on September 12, 2006 - 12:01pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I would add this one(as you mentioned)  if you have any desire to know what is happening.  Learn what the Federal Reserve Bank was designed to do. (Hint: It's NOT a Federal Agency, There are NO Reserves and It's NOT a Bank).

The Creature from Jekyll Island

Where does money come from? Where does it go? Who makes it? The money magicians' secrets are unveiled. We get a close look at their mirrors and smoke machines, their pulleys, cogs, and wheels that create the grand illusion called money.

http://www.realityzone.com/creature.html

I would also suggest reading Cathrine Fitts articles as you pointed out.

Follow the Money !!!

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429 comments on DrumBeat: September 11, 2006

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