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181 comments on DrumBeat: September 16, 2006

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NeverLNG on September 16, 2006 - 9:34am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
That is a silly thing to say.  Not that it hasn't been said before -- I'm sure Aristotle thought he was in posession of all knowledge.

We have, as a species, assembled a lot of "facts" about the universe, but there is a lot of work to do in putting them together in coherent, meaningful ways.  What we call science is a collection of hypotheses that more or less hold together in The Standard Model.  

The new science, however, will take more from Blake than from Newton or Einstein.

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Leanan on September 16, 2006 - 9:40am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
He addresses all those arguments in his article.
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roel on September 16, 2006 - 11:33am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
A simple basic question to prove/disprove Horgan::

  • Why did we get into the mess we're in
  • and how do we get out of it?

If we can find out how to answer even just one of the two, we disprove his statement, for that would surely be the biggest discovery in the history of science.

if we can't find out, which would indicate the end or limits to science, and prove him right, then all of us here at TOD, and many others, would be better off getting drunk and fornicating without limits, and starting right now.

We would be wasting our time trying any longer. And that, in turn, would be really stupid, hence the outcome of all science to date is stupidity.

NB: I'm very sceptical about the ultimate values of science and technology, a good case can be made to argue it has had more negative than positive impact on us and our world.

But still, to say "this is all there is to know" requires that you think you're really smart. Which contradicts the stupidity. Or are we all stupid except for Horgan?

It's kind of funny that the statement implies that he is smarter than us, and we'll never be able to prove him wrong.

Wait a minute, that's religion.


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geewiz on September 16, 2006 - 6:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
And wasn't it the US Patent office that stated in the late 1800, or early 1900's that there is nothing left to patent. Because all that there is to know has been patented.  
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step back on September 16, 2006 - 8:43pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
According to this site it's an urban legend

A clue to the origin of the myth may be found in Patent Office Commissioner Henry Ellsworth's 1843 report to Congress. In it he states, "The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end." But Commissioner Ellsworth was simply using a bit of rhetorical flourish to emphasize the growing number of patents as presented in the rest of the report. He even outlined specific areas in which he expected patent activity to increase in the future.
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geewiz on September 16, 2006 - 9:36pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Yes, thanks. That clears it up for me.
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sustainable light on September 18, 2006 - 5:35am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
There are some pretty prominent unsolved scientific problems, including

  1. Expanding universe - how did it all begin? did it have a beginning or do the proponents of pulsating universe and steady state universes have a point?
  2. Proper scientific bridge between quantum mechanics and relativity (i.e a proper theory of everything)
  3. In biology, there is no accepted theory of speciation - formation of 2 different species (i.e. those that cannot reproduce with each other) from a common ancestor.
  4. protein folding
  5. The entire field of brain science.
  6. civilizational longevity - how to create the system to coordinate the activities of milllions of people so that humanity can survive and sustain itself - if you go totally agro, as per the permaculture guys, you are just waiting to get whacked by an asteroid strike. If you go totally techno, then you might exhaust your concentrated sources of energy.
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SqueakyRat on September 16, 2006 - 10:26am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I doubt whether Aristotle thought he was in possession of all knowledge, since he had a notoriously insatiable appetite for acquiring more of it.
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oldhippie on September 16, 2006 - 4:15pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Aristotle was not that sort of arrogant dummy. Reading and rereading Aristotle is rewarding just as is reading Shakespeare. Though far fewer trouble themselves to read Aristotle. The Richard McKeon translations are exemplary.
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elwoodelmore on September 16, 2006 - 5:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
the "intelligent design" proponents have already concluded that there is nothing new to discover scientifically because it is always the same   just another manifestation of intelligent design  a line of thinking that is directly parallel to the cornucopians   "new and improved technology"  blah blah blah  abiotic source    blah blah blah    jacks two    blah blah blah
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Apuleius on September 16, 2006 - 7:12pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The issue isn't that there's nothing new to learn. It's that the frontiers of science are at a point where it takes huge amounts of work and money to advance them any further. In physics, we need particle colliders whose prices are increasing without cease. In biology, we have to go to nastier and nastier places to discover new organisms. As the price goes up, we have to accept that many of the scientific questions we have posed are questions that will go unanswered for long amounts of time.
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odograph on September 16, 2006 - 7:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
They were still talking about this one on NPR this week:

http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/ZooGoer/2001/2/intoxnewguineabirds.cfm

Here's a more recent find, along a highway, of all "nastier and nastier places to discover new organisms:"

http://www.620ktar.com/?nid=35&sid=223161

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181 comments on DrumBeat: September 16, 2006

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